60' Flat car

[JoeD]

Howdy

Looking for a TTX expert.  Continuing research on the 60' flat project and looking for the date the side ratchet style brake lever was introduced to the fleet.   

Thanks

Joe

[Ed Kapuscinski]

Do you have the TTX books that the PRR T&HS put out? There might be info in there.

[Missaberoad]

Fwiw, I can't find a picture of a Trailer Train/TTX 60ft FM with a ratchet brake before the early 2000's. Also the stemwinders are still in existence, so the conversion was not total.

[dandopinski]

Hi Joe

Is it a Thrall, Pullman or a BSC made car? What is the number series?

[samusi01]

@MTLJoe

If you are on groups.io, the modern freight cars list is frequented by Dick Dawson, who worked for Trailer Train as a design engineer.

Sam

As an addendum, I see our own @James Costello is asking Mr. Dawson about the 60' flats this morning over there...

[JoeD]

Yes, I just saw that.  Thanks a bunch for the helping hand.   

Joe

[dandopinski]

https://www.railcarphotos.com/PhotoDetails.php?PhotoID=99799

[James Costello]

For completeness for those following along, from Trailer Train engineer Dick Dawson on the MFCL:

...the immediate answer is that I am unaware of any program to convert the hand brakes on 60' cars with end-mounted brakes on a wholesale basis.  This doesn't necessarily mean that no such program existed, but my suspicion is that cars had their hand brakes switched when only converted into a different service for which end-mounted brakes would get in the way.  I'll try to see if I can get any more definitive information. 

Upon further investigation, it turns out that end sill-mounted horizontal-wheel hand brakes were converted to side-mounted lever hand brakes at first only on cars being converted to VTTX/TTCX COFC service.  The hand brake modification was then extended to cars converted to JTTX log bunk service and finally to all cars receiving AAR Extended Service Status (EXS) to extend their lives from 40 to 50 years.  Of course, the hand brakes are also switched on cars receiving Increased Life Status (ILS) to extend their lives to 65 years. 

To round this out, "The TTX Story" (P123) talks about this conversions for the TTCX / VTTX conversions for intermodal service starting in 1985.

[Ed Kapuscinski]

Putting in my vote for them in TOFC service!!

[Missaberoad]

Putting in my vote for them in TOFC service!!

The VTTX/TTCX rebuilds is the car JTC just announced!

[James Costello]

Based on the MTL poster shown at RMTS:
https://www.therailwire.net/forum/index.php?topic=55771.msg767153#msg767153

We now know that this is a Thrall, 1975 built modern flatcar.

These are the Thrall as-built numbers (Table 11-7 from the TTX Story):

Initial   Number Series   No.   Class   Builder   Built OTTX   97000-97099   100   F60FH   Thrall   1967 TTHX   97100-97193   94   TSH60C   Thrall   1974 OTTX   97194-97418   225   TSH60A   Thrall   1974 HTTX   97419-97462   44   TSH60A   Thrall   1974 PTTX   97463-97562   100   TSH60B   Thrall   1974-75 MTTX   97563-97700   138   TSH60B   Thrall   1975 TTHX   97701-97705   5   TSH62   Thrall   1975 OTTX   97706-97955   250   TSH61   Thrall   1975 HTTX   97956-98002   47   TSH61   Thrall   1975 MTTX   98003-98225   223   TSH62   Thrall   1975-76

Service Type (July 1970)
PTTX - Bulkhead Flat (wallboard, plywood etc)
MTTX - General Purpose (M = Multi)
OTTX - Agriculture
HTTX - Heavy Duty
TTHX - Heavy Duty (replaced by HTTX but not removed)

[James Costello]

Putting in my vote for them in TOFC service!!

The conversions to VTTX / TTCX were for COFC use only - no trailers.

[James Costello]

The VTTX/TTCX rebuilds is the car JTC just announced!

Yep, and we also now know its prototype is a Pullman Standard flatcar, so at least it's somewhat different.

Anyone remember what the Intermountain car is based on?

[Missaberoad]

Yep, and we also now know its prototype is a Pullman Standard flatcar, so at least it's somewhat different.
Anyone remember what the Intermountain car is based on?

The Intermountain car was based on the Pullman Standard car. It has some detail errors but is closest to a post 1965 OTTX car.

[basementcalling]

So in theory, based on the life extension numbers and build dates, some of these cars could still be in service up to 2040?