BLI Decides to go “Stealth”

[oakcreekco]

I agree. All good points. And all reasons I've never even considered buying any BLI product.

Same here.

[mike_lawyer]

This is a very positive development... I was just talking to a modeler the other day about how BLI should focus on making quality mechanisms and let modelers figure out whatever electronics they want to add.  Just include a DCC plug.

[MK]

Not knowing anything about the Next18 vs. 6-pin, how hard is it for someone to design/manufacture an adapter board to go from 6 to 18?  Would there be electronics involved or just a physical connector with perhaps some lost connections?

[bigdawgks]

A 6-pin to N18 adapter would IMO just be a waste of space. You'd be better off ripping out the 6-pin connector and wiring your own Next18 socket in place (and you can buy boards with these sockets and solder pads). This is especially true if you wanted to use more function outputs than just front/rear lights. In fact with only a 6-pin interface there's nothing for BLI to wire additional lights to, so they may as well just omit them from said models. If they include a speaker, you'd have to solder your own wires to that too (unless they included a second 2-pim connector just for that).

[peteski]

There are plenty of hardwired sound decoders available (with wires instead of connector) from various manufacturers (both sound and non-sound).  The 6-pin connector will likely be on some sort of PC board inside the loco.  Ripping it out just to hand-wire a Next18 connector makes no sense, It would be IMO waste of time - just rip pot a 6-pin connector and fully hardwire the decoder.

Mike, the 6-pin connector just has the very basic functions (track power, motor output, and F0F and F0R with no capability for the common positive connection).  Next18 connector has all the connections needed for several functions and the speaker.  That is why it makes sense to use it as a standard connector for models which can be used as DC or DCC models.

[jdcolombo]

Folks, hard-wiring a decoder just isn't that hard.  With a diesel, the wiring is about as obvious as can be: front LED, rear LED, trucks and motor.  White/blue; Yellow/blue, red, black, orange, gray.  Done.  With a steam loco, the hardest part would be identifying the wires coming from the engine, but if there's a 6-pin plug, you'll know which wire is which from their plug placement.  Get a Weller 25-watt iron with a pencil tip, some .8mm shrink wrap tubing to insulate the wire joints, some rosin-core solder, and you're there.   Yes, it will take 15 minutes to do, instead of a one minute "pop the decoder into the socket" arrangement, but it's not brain surgery.  And it is true that if you have advanced lighting functions, like ditch lights or marker lights, it can get much more complicated very quickly.  But most manufacturers don't do ditch lights correctly anyway - if you want alternating ditch lights, you'll have to do all the work yourself and re-do the decoder anyway.  For the basic front light/rear light/motor arrangement, the wiring is pretty straight-forward.

"The only thing we have to fear is fear itself." 

John C.

[Lemosteam]

There are plenty of hardwired sound decoders available (with wires instead of connector) from various manufacturers (both sound and non-sound).  The 6-pin connector will likely be on some sort of PC board inside the loco.  Ripping it out just to hand-wire a Next18 connector makes no sense, It would be IMO waste of time - just rip pot a 6-pin connector and fully hardwire the decoder.

Mike, the 6-pin connector just has the very basic functions (track power, motor output, and F0F and F0R with no capability for the common positive connection).  Next18 connector has all the connections needed for several functions and the speaker.  That is why it makes sense to use it as a standard connector for models which can be used as DC or DCC models.

That is not what I said.  I said hardwire a decoder.  I think the connectors are just another electrical failure point.  Like plumbing- them more connctions you have, the more potential for failure.

[Lemosteam]

Folks, hard-wiring a decoder just isn't that hard.  With a diesel, the wiring is about as obvious as can be: front LED, rear LED, trucks and motor.  White/blue; Yellow/blue, red, black, orange, gray.  Done.  With a steam loco, the hardest part would be identifying the wires coming from the engine, but if there's a 6-pin plug, you'll know which wire is which from their plug placement.  Get a Weller 25-watt iron with a pencil tip, some .8mm shrink wrap tubing to insulate the wire joints, some rosin-core solder, and you're there.   Yes, it will take 15 minutes to do, instead of a one minute "pop the decoder into the socket" arrangement, but it's not brain surgery.  And it is true that if you have advanced lighting functions, like ditch lights or marker lights, it can get much more complicated very quickly.  But most manufacturers don't do ditch lights correctly anyway - if you want alternating ditch lights, you'll have to do all the work yourself and re-do the decoder anyway.  For the basic front light/rear light/motor arrangement, the wiring is pretty straight-forward.

"The only thing we have to fear is fear itself." 

John C.

THIS^^^^^^^

[bigdawgks]

While it's not a particular challenge to hardwire a decoder, that's not an excuse for a modern manufacturer to not install a standard connector. Hardwired installs are much more annoying to do maintenance on than plugin decoders. For example, if you need to swap out a decoder (ex: it has failed) then it's a lot more effort if you need to desolder wires. Plus, if designed correctly using a "mother" board with a socket can actually save space. Wires and especially wire splices take up space, much more so than a PCB can be made (again if executed correctly). Also, unless you use space consuming connectors in your wiring, the wires can make disassembly and reassembly a much more complicated task. As I mentioned before this practice is becoming standard in the rest of the world, and it's for a good reason. Why shouldn't North American model makers also adopt such standards?

[EspeeGoldenState]

BLI needs to re-evaluate what they want to do as a model railroad company. They want have highly detailed models with sound, but they design subpar electronics that can't go 5 inches without resetting. They sometimes have a high level of detail on their loco's with separately applied grab irons but then have some models with molded on details at the same price as the higher level detail models. They introduce gimmicky, toylike features like smoke in N, mooing box cars, and the bass speaker to make you feel your model, but want to be considered as a premier model railroad manufacturer. They make some incredibly unique models but then make a model that is already oversaturated in the market.
I just don't get it.
They now want to appease modelers who won't buy their product because of the decoder by now selling them as dc/dcc ready but put an inferior connector in the n scale models.

You forgot their most innovative item ever! The Choo Choo Shoes! Remember those!
https://www.broadway-limited.com/choochooshoes.aspx

Personally I've only ever purchased four AC6000CWs as I don't figure another manufacturer producing them any time soon, though I believe at one time it was rumored (but I have no truth to it) that Fox Valley was going to produce one. 

[Mark5]

Folks, hard-wiring a decoder just isn't that hard.  With a diesel, the wiring is about as obvious as can be: front LED, rear LED, trucks and motor.  White/blue; Yellow/blue, red, black, orange, gray.  Done.  With a steam loco, the hardest part would be identifying the wires coming from the engine, but if there's a 6-pin plug, you'll know which wire is which from their plug placement.  Get a Weller 25-watt iron with a pencil tip, some .8mm shrink wrap tubing to insulate the wire joints, some rosin-core solder, and you're there.   Yes, it will take 15 minutes to do, instead of a one minute "pop the decoder into the socket" arrangement, but it's not brain surgery.  And it is true that if you have advanced lighting functions, like ditch lights or marker lights, it can get much more complicated very quickly.  But most manufacturers don't do ditch lights correctly anyway - if you want alternating ditch lights, you'll have to do all the work yourself and re-do the decoder anyway.  For the basic front light/rear light/motor arrangement, the wiring is pretty straight-forward.

"The only thing we have to fear is fear itself." 

John C.

John makes an excellent point! If you feel strongly about the Next18 thing, let BLI know (I very am lazy so I just emailed them to ask to them to consider the Next 18 for their N models).

Mark

[peteski]

That is not what I said.  I said hardwire a decoder.  I think the connectors are just another electrical failure point.  Like plumbing- them more connctions you have, the more potential for failure.

LOL John, I wasn't specifically responding to your comment. I just made a general statement.

You know that I have no problem hardwiring pretty much anything.  But since the current trend in model manufacturing seems to  factory install a "light board" (which also routes the track power and motor on that PC board) which has one of the typical DCC decoder connectors installed and with a dummy DC plug included for DC operation, I was just surprised that BLI chose 6-pin plug instead of the more popular nowadays Next18 connector.  I'll be just as happy if the Stealth model came "in the raw" with no interconnecting PC board installed.  I'll just wire it all myself (likely etch my own PC board for a clean install).  But to put your mind at rest, in my experience neither the 6-pin or the Next18 connectors are prone to failures.  Next 18 has gold plated contacts and it doesn't experience repeated cycling.  Also, since BLI prides itself in DCC sound experience, I'd have thought that they would have produced a DC "Stealth" model which would allow modelers plug-n-play install of another brand sound decoder using the popular Next18 connector.

[nickelplate759]

I'm no electronics whiz, so I figure if I can hardwire DCC into an old Rowa/Rivarossi Berkshire, complete with added Mars light, then pretty much any other klutz can do it too.

[mike_lawyer]

It will be curious to see if BLI offers all of their locomotives without DCC and sound, or if it is only for select models. 

[C855B]

I suspect Paragon 4 models only, that they've done a straight-across replacement board with the same connectors, etc. Now whether it's all P4 models, well, that's what we're hanging out here waiting to hear about.