Author Topic: Fixing the MT Slinky Effect  (Read 1439 times)

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rodsup9000

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Fixing the MT Slinky Effect
« on: March 12, 2023, 09:02:32 AM »
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   I may have found a fix for the slinky effect by accident.

 I had a fellow N scaler from out of town drop by last week to see the kayout and run a few trains. After a hour or so of running (I had the layout set up to run loop to loop), he asked "how did I get rid of the slinky in the train". I had never really paid attention that my trains didn't. So I got to running more trains for several hoursand I didn't see any at all.

 A while back, I posted about body mounting couples to my freight cars with my 3D printed boxes. Thus far I've done over 400 Kadee/MTL cars by taking the parts out of the truck mounted couplers and assembling them into my boxes. If you look compare the slot between the two, you'll notice that mine as very little room to move for and aft, but will swivel back and forth. The MT has a big hole that allows the coupler to move for and aft and side to side. Also my post is larger and the coupler isn't allowed to move much for and aft there either.

  These uncouple fine with a pick, but I haven't tried with a magnet as I don't use them.


 



Rodney

My Feather River Canyon in N-scale
http://www.therailwire.net/forum/index.php?topic=31585.0

peteski

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Re: Fixing the MT Slinky Effect
« Reply #1 on: March 12, 2023, 10:19:18 AM »
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The reason MTL couplers can uncouple magnetically is the very free movement they have (they are loose in the coupler box).  That also causes them to oscillate under certain condition (your slinky effect).  If you tighten up the coupler box, that increases the amount of friction when the coupler shanks move in the box.  That is how oscillation-dampening shock absorbent work.  The ones in the cars from the early 20th century were actually friction based (as opposed to fluid based ones used in today's cars). The couplers will likely not uncouple magnetically, but they are free enough to swing and couple without excessive force.  I have my doubts if they will be able to reliably magnetically uncouple (but you don't care about that anyway).

Sounds  like your solution might be very handy for some anti-slinkers.  :)
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robert3985

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Re: Fixing the MT Slinky Effect
« Reply #2 on: March 17, 2023, 10:05:59 AM »
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The reason MTL couplers can uncouple magnetically is the very free movement they have (they are loose in the coupler box).  That also causes them to oscillate under certain condition (your slinky effect).  If you tighten up the coupler box, that increases the amount of friction when the coupler shanks move in the box.  That is how oscillation-dampening shock absorbent work.  The ones in the cars from the early 20th century were actually friction based (as opposed to fluid based ones used in today's cars). The couplers will likely not uncouple magnetically, but they are free enough to swing and couple without excessive force.  I have my doubts if they will be able to reliably magnetically uncouple (but you don't care about that anyway).

Sounds  like your solution might be very handy for some anti-slinkers.  :)

Being a machinist since I was 14, I've been aware of something called "slop" between two mechanical moving parts for a very long time.  I am going to bet that @rodsup9000 's printed coupler boxes don't offer any more friction to the coupler halves, but since the central post is a bit bigger than the MTL central post, he's minimized the "slop" that's in the MTL design, meaning that the coupler won't be able to slide fore and aft as much as a stock MTL coupler box allows. 

I don't know for sure, and since I don't have any of the printed coupler boxes to check, I'll go out on a limb and I'll bet that if they swing from side to side easily, that they'll still uncouple reliably using MTL's Magne Matic feature.

If the tolerances inside the 3D printed box are so tight that it impairs the amount the jaws will open up, then it could be that being able to push cars with the coupler jaws wide open may not work, but this hasn't got anything to do with the central post being less "sloppy" than MTL's design.

But, I might be wrong...and perhaps the "slop" engineered into the MTL design is there for a purpose.

I stopped using the Magne Matic feature decades ago, and have cut most of the magnetic dongles off of all of my N and MTL Z scale couplers over the years. 

Now that I'm slowly converting to modified MTL True Scale couplers and retiring all of my Z-scale couplers, I'm not too worried about the dreaded slinky effect.

But, it is interesting that @rodsup9000 's design eliminates the slinky effect.  I would have thought that it would have taken more than a simple minuscule increase in the central post's diameter to do that.

Cheerio!
Bob Gilmore

rodsup9000

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Re: Fixing the MT Slinky Effect
« Reply #3 on: March 17, 2023, 10:37:08 AM »
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    If you look at the post (2nd photo), there is still room for the coupler to move for and aft a few thousandths. So I think it more with the nubs on the top and bottom that rides in the slots

Rodney

My Feather River Canyon in N-scale
http://www.therailwire.net/forum/index.php?topic=31585.0

peteski

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Re: Fixing the MT Slinky Effect
« Reply #4 on: March 17, 2023, 10:48:32 AM »
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I don't know for sure, and since I don't have any of the printed coupler boxes to check, I'll go out on a limb and I'll bet that if they swing from side to side easily, that they'll still uncouple reliably using MTL's Magne Matic feature.

Yes, reducing fore and aft slop in the coupler shank will reduce the distance the coupler can move  (so the sprung distance is reduced).  That makes sense. I assumed the tighter coupler box increased friction of the coupler shank inside the box. Also, Rod specifically mentioned that while the couplers seem to coupler easily, he did not test magnetic uncoupling.
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bbussey

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Re: Fixing the MT Slinky Effect
« Reply #5 on: March 17, 2023, 12:32:22 PM »
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On another thread it was noticed that equipment fitted with high quality machines metal wheels greatly reduces if not eliminates the oscillation effect. That makes sense given the reduced friction and static.
Bryan Busséy
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Mike C

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Re: Fixing the MT Slinky Effect
« Reply #6 on: March 18, 2023, 08:30:57 PM »
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On another thread it was noticed that equipment fitted with high quality machines metal wheels greatly reduces if not eliminates the oscillation effect. That makes sense given the reduced friction and static.

   I'm not so sure about this . I'm an HOn3 er and run mostly Blackstone cars . They use kadee 714 couplers and high quality metal wheels and they bounce like nothing I have ever seen before . It was so bad I changed everything over to Sergent couplers . Funny thing is I never had any slinky in HO standard gauge , maybe it was the variety of couplers the mfg's used .

Ike the BN Freak

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Re: Fixing the MT Slinky Effect
« Reply #7 on: March 18, 2023, 09:03:43 PM »
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   I'm not so sure about this . I'm an HOn3 er and run mostly Blackstone cars . They use kadee 714 couplers and high quality metal wheels and they bounce like nothing I have ever seen before . It was so bad I changed everything over to Sergent couplers . Funny thing is I never had any slinky in HO standard gauge , maybe it was the variety of couplers the mfg's used .

Standard HO couplers don't have springs in the shanks that compress causing the slinky issues