The Challenger Challenge

[mmagliaro]

That wheel definitely doesn't have a tire on it.  I didn't say anything because I assumed it was the one that threw a tire, as the OP mentioned several posts back.  But maybe I'm wrong in that assumption.

[Cajonpassfan]

Guys
Yes, the pic is of the loco I mentioned in Reply #3, that threw the TT again, and yes it illustrates the empty groove that I measured and noted above. It also shows on the other side how narrow the black TT's are. Sorry about the pic quality, best I can do with an iPhone.

The point here is that NONE of my Challengers, with TT's intact, pull well, and never did, even when brand new.
I've been busy, so I've yet to try Max's suggestion to check the gauge and adjust it if under. He may have something there, that would in theory place a greater part of the TT over the rails where they might actually do some good.

Thanks for your interest,
Otto

[Cajonpassfan]

That wheel definitely doesn't have a tire on it.  I didn't say anything because I assumed it was the one that threw a tire, as the OP mentioned several posts back.  But maybe I'm wrong in that assumption.

A correct assumption, Max

[Lemosteam]

Guys
Yes, the pic is of the loco I mentioned in Reply #3, that threw the TT again, and yes it illustrates the empty groove that I measured and noted above. It also shows on the other side how narrow the black TT's are. Sorry about the pic quality, best I can do with an iPhone.

The point here is that NONE of my Challengers, with TT's intact, pull well, and never did, even when brand new.
I've been busy, so I've yet to try Max's suggestion to check the gauge and adjust it if under. He may have something there, that would in theory place a greater part of the TT over the rails where they might actually do some good.

Thanks for your interest,
Otto

Ah, but the pic is with the text that mentions the drivers being on the track. As such I assumed that loco was the one you investigated for track contact.

[robert3985]

Is it just me or does it look like the wheel opposite the driver with the TT, does not have a TT?  Maybe the image is just blurry.

Definitely no traction tire.  That COULD be a problem, eh??

Cheerio!
Bob Gilmore

[Cajonpassfan]

Definitely no traction tire.  That COULD be a problem, eh??

Cheerio!
Bob Gilmore

I give up

Let me say it again: "The point here si that NONE of my Challengers, with TT's intact, pull well, and never did, even when brand new"...
Otto

[delamaize]

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What do I win?

[kiwi_al]

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What do I win?

A Chocolate fish 

[robert3985]

I give up

Let me say it again: "The point here si that NONE of my Challengers, with TT's intact, pull well, and never did, even when brand new"...
Otto

Otto,

I would think that having only one traction tire would be more troublesome than not having any...that was my point.  On my engines, if one traction tire goes away, and I don't have a replacement, I take the other traction tire off until I can run it with both traction tires...especially steam engines.  That probably doesn't increase tractive effort, but they run smoother.

I'd write a comment about all nine of my Athearn Challengers being great pullers/runners, but I only have one little grade on my layout, so my running experience isn't the equivalent of yours.  Mine will pull 35 40' cars and a caboose without any slippage, but that's the maximum length train on my layout because of my center siding length, and all of my Challengers are relegated to freight/helper service since my era is later than yours. Incidently, that's also what my Athearn Big Boys pull without problems...adding a couple more cars to my Big Boy trains, and they start to slip on my short, little grade at Echo Curve.

Hope you find a solution...

Cheerio!
Bob Gilmore

[jbonkowski]

Dave, thanks for your comments also. One would think an engine that size and weight should pull stumps. No such luck. I'll try the snot I mentioned earlier, and also check the TT wheel contact with the rail...interesting observation.

If there is anyone out there who owns one or more of these, I'd be interested in your experience with the pulling ability of these things.

Thanks and kind regards,
Otto K.

Count me among the Athearn Challenger owners (in my case the Northern Pacific Z10 variety) who has one with poor pulling power.

It was immediately obvious to me when watching it that the drivers with the traction tires were not touching the rails, riding higher than the other drivers by a very tiny amount.

Fixing it has been on my to-do list for a while. Is there a bearing block under that driver where something can be inserted to make it sit lower? I was also wondering if a third party traction tire might be a little thicker and close the gap. Maybe some weight added inside the shell over the drivers will shift the weight distribution and hold the traction tires lower?

Jim B.

[Cajonpassfan]

What do I win?

Impressive! But you win nothing Not until you tell us what you did to it.
And I see flat track...what can it pull up a 2% grade?

Bob, I should have left the broken TT out of the conversation, I was just tired of having to replace them.
My other Challengers, with TT's intact can pull 30 cars on the level, but die on the mountain...
Thanks, Otto

[delamaize]

Impressive! But you win nothing Not until you tell us what you did to it.
And I see flat track...what can it pull up a 2% grade?

Yeah, Its all flat and level, I have not had much of an opportunity to run it on grades. I estimate it should loose about 10 cars with grades involved.

As for what I did, Added weight in the boiler, with as much as I can focused over the gear towers. Re-gauged everything to be dead on. Fine tuned all the The quartering to be as close to dead on as I could get it. biggest thing I did was widen the traction tire grooves in the drivers, and installed wider and thicker traction tires. I wouldn't suggest this to anyone, unless you got a lot of experience working on steam, and don't mind risking destroying parts. it wasn't easy.

[sp org div]

I dont own any steam but only pulling that car count seems kinda lethargic for a loco that heavy with 6 driven axles.
Heck I have an sw1200 weighing half as much that pulls 50 cars. Do all those idler wheels spin freely?  Im thinking that there is one or more that have excess drag acting like a brake sled. Maybe the electrical pickups can be modified to minimize drag?

[mmagliaro]

You widened those grooves?   ROCK AND ROLL, man.  That is a great solution, but like you said, not easy.
Did you do it in a lathe or did you use some home-brew scheme like running it on its back and carefully holding
files or a Dremel in there?

Are the traction tire drivers on the Challenger pinned to the rods?  Or are they just geared with the rods running around
in front of them for show?

[Cajonpassfan]

Yeah, Its all flat and level, I have not had much of an opportunity to run it on grades. I estimate it should loose about 10 cars with grades involved.

As for what I did, Added weight in the boiler, with as much as I can focused over the gear towers. Re-gauged everything to be dead on. Fine tuned all the The quartering to be as close to dead on as I could get it. biggest thing I did was widen the traction tire grooves in the drivers, and installed wider and thicker traction tires. I wouldn't suggest this to anyone, unless you got a lot of experience working on steam, and don't mind risking destroying parts. it wasn't easy.

Wow, you do win a prize! Like I said earlier, impressive!
Widening the grooves is way beyond my skills and tolerance for disaster. Just replacing the tires creeps me out, because (yes Max) they are pinned, and the rear one is especially tricky with multiple layers. And as to adding weight, I didn't think there was room, I sure would like to see how you managed that. Got any pics or advice?
Otto K.