Kato Pennsy Broadway Limited Passenger Car derailing

[carmelmodelrr]

I have the 10 car Broadway Limited passenger car set--but I can only run 8 of the cars without a problem.  The articulated Diner and Kitchen-Dormitory pair derail on many of the curves on my layout.  I've tried replacing the trucks and also placing weights inside the cars directly over the trucks but that hasn't helped.  The undersides of the cars seem to be at their proper height -- compared to the other cars in the consist.  Is there a solution or am I doomed to run an 8 car set for this train?

Thank you in advance--and Happy New Year.

Carmelmodelrr

[nkalanaga]

How sharp are your curves?  My first thought would be, if it derails on the sharpest of your curves, the cars may need to be a little further apart, to keep the inside corners from touching.  You can see that by pushing the car through the curve.

If that isn't the issue, my second thought would have been that the trucks couldn't turn freely, but I'm sure you would have noticed that when you changed them.

Beyond that, I have no experience with articulated passenger cars, and can't help.  If the other cars work fine, it almost has to be the articulation.

[bbussey]

Agreed regarding the radii of the curves.  Even though the kinetic couplers stretch the gap between cars on curves, there still can be issues — especially through curves without easement and sharper-radii S curves regardless of easement.

[johnb]

do the cars derail when you run them in a shorter train?

[peteski]

Carmelmodelrr mentioned that it is only the articulated pair of cars are derailing.  I don't own that set, but my Kato SP Daylight has multiple articulated cars.  Those are permanently coupled with the articulated joint made up from a very closely fitting diaphragm.  That likely has something to do with the problem.

I run my Daylight train problem-free on NTRAK layouts where the curves are on flat track with wide curves and also on friends layout. His layout has fairly broad curves on the mainline, and his trackwork is impeccable.

Carmelmodelrr, has this train ran successfully in the past, or this is the first time you tried it?  Did you check if the articulated joint can swivel smoothly,? Maybe there is some bind in it.

[Dwight in Toronto]

Hey Carmel.  I don’t have that specific passenger car set, but if the articulation is done in the same manner as Kato’s Morning Daylight articulated coaches, here’s another thing that you can look for. 

I had the very same problem with one of the 2-car artics in my Morning Daylight consist.  I tried the same things as you, as well as replacing the track/curved turnout where the derailment would occur.  Nothing helped.  I was giving the coaches a careful look-see, and while holding them, started gently flexing them to & fro.  Occasionally I could feel a slight catch, or snick/hesitation when bending them.  I took everything apart, and found a tiny bit of plastic flashing on the small centre piece that forms the vestibule between the two cars.  A few passes with some fine sandpaper, and all was perfect. 

It’s worth a look … good luck!

[johnb]

Carmelmodelrr mentioned that it is only the articulated pair of cars are derailing.  I don't own that set, but my Kato SP Daylight has multiple articulated cars.  Those are permanently coupled with the articulated joint made up from a very closely fitting diaphragm.  That likely has something to do with the problem.

I run my Daylight train problem-free on NTRAK layouts where the curves are on flat track with wide curves and also on friends layout. His layout has fairly broad curves on the mainline, and his trackwork is impeccable.

Carmelmodelrr, has this train ran successfully in the past, or this is the first time you tried it?  Did you check if the articulated joint can swivel smoothly,? Maybe there is some bind in it.

I saw, just curious if there was some weird bind caused by the length of the train, like an issue with the weight of the car set.

[Sokramiketes]

One possibility is to swap out the trucks for the standard Kato trucks with couplers, which are available in Kato's parts store.  That way you can remove the articulated coupling.  The spacing works out. 

[seusscaboose]

shameless self promotion:

the fix is clear in my mind.  You're missing the mid-train lounge that was used as overflow capacity for passengers waiting for the double-diner

Simply drop in this car (vestibule rear facing) after the table car and I am quite sure all your problems will disappear 

https://catalpafalls.square.site/

 

[djconway]

I have the Broadway Limited 8 car set, and I to have problems with running on 1- sharp curves (less than 15") 2- S curves without a 4"-6" straight between the curves.
I've tried adding weight, with no change.
I may try rounding the edges where the cars articulate, but this set may be shelf queens.

[bbussey]

I have the Broadway Limited 8 car set, and I to have problems with running on 1- sharp curves (less than 15") 2- S curves without a 4"-6" straight between the curves.
I've tried adding weight, with no change.
I may try rounding the edges where the cars articulate, but this set may be shelf queens.

You need to modify your trackage and at minimum add easement into your curves.  Cars that are a scale 86-feet long are not designed to turn on a dime.  There is nothing wrong with your Kato set.

[greenwizard88]

I have the first run of the set, plus another 6 or so cars. They run fine on 282mm curves.

The diaphragm is absolutely where I would start looking for an issue. Even a minor binding in it can cause problems. I had to take one of my articulated cars apart to fix that sort of issue, I can't recall if it was the Broadway Limited or Daylight. IIRC, it's easy to mistake the hinge for being assembled correctly, when it's actually off my 1/2 a millimeter or so. Hardly enough to worry about, except that this is N scale where 1/2 of a mm is actually impactful.

seusscaboose - That's an awesome car! I'll try to buy one, after I'm done fixing my bathroom. Literally, my dog ate it.

[brokemoto]

I do not have either the Daylight or Broadway Limited sets.  Despite that, I do have some parallel experience with diaphragm's being a culprit, although in my case it was my own failure to read directions properly.  I read them, as I am a read the directions guy, but did not read them properly.

I bought my first set of MT FTs.  I attached one diaphragm to  the Number Two end of the A and to the A end of the B-unit.  They were climbing and derailing even on nineteen inch radius curves.  It took an e-Mail to MT to learn the problem and correct it.

[seusscaboose]

seusscaboose - That's an awesome car! I'll try to buy one, after I'm done fixing my bathroom. Literally, my dog ate it.

thanks... i'll put one to the side...

[carmelmodelrr]

I believe that the articulated Pennsy cars already have the standard Kato couplers.  If I'm wrong, please correct me.  As for the diaphragms, would they work between the two articulated cars?

carmelmodelrr