Amtrak storm cancelations

[Jbub]

I hope no one had plans to travel on Amtrak this weekend.

https://www.trains.com/trn/news-reviews/news-wire/amtrak-cancels-empire-builder-thins-midwest-departures-in-advance-of-winter-storm/

The CZ has been quite late (more than 5 hours) a lot over the last few months.

[nkalanaga]

Amtrak's eastbound Empire Builder, supposed to depart Seattle 12-19, was 11 hours late approaching Spokane today.  I don't know where it was delayed, as it didn't show as departed Seattle at 11pm 12-19.  Maybe the westbound train was that late, so couldn't be turned any earlier.

[Jbub]

Amtrak's eastbound Empire Builder, supposed to depart Seattle 12-19, was 11 hours late approaching Spokane today.  I don't know where it was delayed, as it didn't show as departed Seattle at 11pm 12-19.  Maybe the westbound train was that late, so couldn't be turned any earlier.

There have been several reports from a local rail enthusiast group of the Westbound CZ being 5-6 hours late, there was one the other day that was 13 hours late coming into Salt Lake. My guess is UP having huge trains going through Moffat that are slow slow slow.

[nkalanaga]

I suspect that the EB's problems are more likely to be the new diesels.  The Trains article said "mechanical issues", and it seems that most new diesel models have "issues" on the Empire Builder.  Winter weather conditions across the Hi-line will find any flaw or deficiency.

The original streamlined EB had E7s.  Nice looking units, but the motors overheated in the mountains.  They were intended for use on fast trains on relatively flat track, not lugging a heavy train up a long grade!  They were replaced with F-units, already proven to be able to handle tonnage.

The SDP40/45s in the late 1960s worked fine, mechanically, but had problems the first winter keeping the trains warm.  They each had one steam generator, like the F-units, but with only two units, there simply wasn't enough steam.  Fortunately the GN's EMD-built steam generator cars could supply the extra.

Amtrak's SDP40F actually worked well on the EB, but had problems with derailing on some roads, so the BN restricted its speed for a time, causing late trains.

Not a mechanical issue, but the first F40s, built with HEP, needed the steam generator cars because the EB was still steam heated.  I saw one train that had a converted E-something "steam generator car".  The windows were plated over, but it still looked like locomotive.

And the current "latest" units had enough problems on their first runs that the EB frequently had four units - two new ones, and two older ones, to make sure the train got through.

[lock4244]

Via say's 'hold my beer' to Amtrak being late... a friend sent a pic of Via #2 departing Edmonton area today a mere 18hrs late, with CN 2519 leading two F40's.

[peteski]

I suspect that the EB's problems are more likely to be the new diesels.  The Trains article said "mechanical issues", and it seems that most new diesel models have "issues" on the Empire Builder.  Winter weather conditions across the Hi-line will find any flaw or deficiency.

The original streamlined EB had E7s.  Nice looking units, but the motors overheated in the mountains.  They were intended for use on fast trains on relatively flat track, not lugging a heavy train up a long grade!  They were replaced with F-units, already proven to be able to handle tonnage.

The SDP40/45s in the late 1960s worked fine, mechanically, but had problems the first winter keeping the trains warm.  They each had one steam generator, like the F-units, but with only two units, there simply wasn't enough steam.  Fortunately the GN's EMD-built steam generator cars could supply the extra.

Amtrak's SDP40F actually worked well on the EB, but had problems with derailing on some roads, so the BN restricted its speed for a time, causing late trains.

Not a mechanical issue, but the first F40s, built with HEP, needed the steam generator cars because the EB was still steam heated.  I saw one train that had a converted E-something "steam generator car".  The windows were plated over, but it still looked like locomotive.

And the current "latest" units had enough problems on their first runs that the EB frequently had four units - two new ones, and two older ones, to make sure the train got through.

All the locos you mentioned have not been used for many years (some go back several decades). After F40PH the P42s were used (and those are I believe mostly retired by now).  I'm not even sure what locos pull the contemporary EB.

[DirtyD79]

All the locos you mentioned have not been used for many years (some go back several decades). After F40PH the P42s were used (and those are I believe mostly retired by now).  I'm not even sure what locos pull the contemporary EB.

I think they started using some dual mode locomotives from Siemens back in February up there. It's weird how all those locos when new had problems on that train.

[C855B]

Wasn't it the EB Empire Builder Southwest Chief that had that mess a few years ago? Where they hit some drifts in Illinois which got into the traction motors? It was an isolated location and IIRC it took over a day to rescue the train. They ran out of food and the honeypots were overflowing. Amtrak and BNSF did a lot of finger-pointing; IMO it was the RR's fault by not running a pilot having already shut ops down for freights or telling Amtrak to stop the train at Fort Madison.

We were on the EB SWC the following week and we had dinner with a passenger from that event. She related how bad it was. Pretty bad.

EDIT: Oops. It was the Southwest Chief, not the EB. My bad.

[nickelplate759]

All the locos you mentioned have not been used for many years (some go back several decades). After F40PH the P42s were used (and those are I believe mostly retired by now).  I'm not even sure what locos pull the contemporary EB.

P42s are still very much in use, at least on the long-distance trains.  A pair of them are the usual power for the Sunset Ltd., for example.

By the way, right now, the eastbound Empire Builder is 21 hours and 46 late to its next stop of Tomah, WI. 

[nkalanaga]

Both east- and west-bound EBs finally made it to their destinations.  The westbound was only about 12 hours late in Seattle.  I don't know how late the eastbound finally was in Chicago.

Peteski:  Thank you.  I couldn't remember what pulled the train between the F40s and the newest units.  I haven't seen it in 20 years!  And, yes, all of the ones I mentioned have been gone for years.  When Amtrak took over, the BN kept the SDPs for freight service, so my first close-up experience with the EB was in Pasco, with F units.  When the SDP40Fs came along I liked them. 

The F40s appeared not long before we moved to Kentucky, and I wasn't impressed with their appearance.  They apparently worked fine, but it just seemed that, regardless of the horsepower, they should have more traction motors!  After all, too few motors is what killed the E7s on Marias Pass, although late 70s motors were considerably improved.

[nickelplate759]

Both east- and west-bound EBs finally made it to their destinations.  The westbound was only about 12 hours late in Seattle.  I don't know how late the eastbound finally was in Chicago.

Peteski:  Thank you.  I couldn't remember what pulled the train between the F40s and the newest units.  I haven't seen it in 20 years!  And, yes, all of the ones I mentioned have been gone for years.  When Amtrak took over, the BN kept the SDPs for freight service, so my first close-up experience with the EB was in Pasco, with F units.  When the SDP40Fs came along I liked them. 

The F40s appeared not long before we moved to Kentucky, and I wasn't impressed with their appearance.  They apparently worked fine, but it just seemed that, regardless of the horsepower, they should have more traction motors!  After all, too few motors is what killed the E7s on Marias Pass, although late 70s motors were considerably improved.

Saw a news post that said all three of the Chargers on the eastbound Empire Builders failed.

[peteski]

Saw a news post that said all three of the Chargers on the eastbound Empire Builders failed.

Why am I not surprised?  Just like any other high-tech toaster stuffed with "intelligent" electronics can be prone to failures.  Just like all those new-fangled washing machines and dryers I see out at the curbside for trash pickup.

OK, I feel better now. 

[kscessandriver]

I think they started using some dual mode locomotives from Siemens back in February up there. It's weird how all those locos when new had problems on that train.

There isn't a single dual mode Charger out there yet. Amtrak is just starting to use the ALC-42 on the long distance trains. A lot of the failures likely come down to 1: new complex machines that are different enough from the P42s that very little mechanical knowledge transfers over; and 2: Amtrak Chicago maintenance is terrible.

[nkalanaga]

No point using dual-mode locos on the Empire Builder, as there's no electrified track.

[CBQ Fan]

Both east- and west-bound EBs finally made it to their destinations.  The westbound was only about 12 hours late in Seattle.  I don't know how late the eastbound finally was in Chicago.

Peteski:  Thank you.  I couldn't remember what pulled the train between the F40s and the newest units.  I haven't seen it in 20 years!  And, yes, all of the ones I mentioned have been gone for years.  When Amtrak took over, the BN kept the SDPs for freight service, so my first close-up experience with the EB was in Pasco, with F units.  When the SDP40Fs came along I liked them. 

The F40s appeared not long before we moved to Kentucky, and I wasn't impressed with their appearance.  They apparently worked fine, but it just seemed that, regardless of the horsepower, they should have more traction motors!  After all, too few motors is what killed the E7s on Marias Pass, although late 70s motors were considerably improved.

The E7 had an A1A truck and that is why it struggled. F40 is like two F7s stuffed in one loco.