What, Why, Who, Where, When, and How of Operations

[dem34]

And if you want some more video examples of OPs. Heres three Channels I like that do it.

[eja]

If I didn't tell you this was in N scale, would you know?

Yep. Sure would.  That MT coupler slinky effect is a dead give away.

Regardless, I completely agree that there is no difference in "operations"  between scales.

eja

[John]

Charlie,

ShipIt is an operating program that works for all scales, and the operating sessions are a lot of fun!  You get a print-out that tells you where your set-outs and pick-ups are, so there are no car cards to worry about.  There is a Group.io users group for it that might be helpful to get a better idea of what it does.  https://groups.io/g/shipitusers/topics

There is a similar program in JMRI -- Operations  - It's what I use to build trains .. very flexible - and free ..

https://www.jmri.org/help/en/package/jmri/jmrit/operations/Operations.shtml

[Ed Kapuscinski]

I really wish my buddy Scott was more active here. He has a WONDERFUL N layout that is all about operations. And it uses, get ready... MRC 2-6-0s as the mainstay for its power.

It is a BLAST to run, and runs incredibly well.
http://www.harm-web.org/dcsrr-n

It's the standard that I aim for with my new NCR.

[brokemoto]

it uses, get ready... MRC 2-6-0s as the mainstay for its power.

That is actually a very good locomotive, be  it the MP or MRC version.  The MRC does have an all wheels live tender.  You must swap in a Kato or B-mann SPECTRUM tender for the MP version.  Mine (MP version with swapped in B-mann SPECTRUM tender) will pull fifteen loaded MT gondolas and a MT wood caboose up a one per-cent grade at fifteen SMPH.  I doubt that the prototype could have done that.  On a 2,2% grade, it will do seven and a MT wood caboose.  That model has very good slow speed control and good pulling power.  It also is good for passenger speeds.

Thank you for the link to his pike.  I see that he has some B-mann consolidateds (also a good locomotive even if early versions were try-before-you-buy).  Those have good pulling power.  Their slow speed control is not as good as the MP/MRC mogul.  I noticed a MP/MRC eight wheeler, as well.  The diesels appear to be B-mann NW-2s.  Given that it is a 1950s era pike, the NW-2 as a wartime model fits.  He did a nice job with those MDC/Athearn over land cars.  Wood passenger cars in the 1950s fit that pike well.  NYS&W was running wood cars late as was SP&S.   The alteration to what is either an Athearn or MT caboose is well done and sets apart his equipment.  I am trying to achieve a similar effect with my Father Nature drover caboose shells (which I use as passenger cars on mixed trains) as well as minor alterations to Arnold and B-mann boom tenders.

One thing lacking in N is a wood baggage/mail or RPO.  It looks like you could bash a baggage/mail from the Athearn/MDC overland combine.  You would have to add a door and mail hook mid-body.  You could fashion a door or cut one from a junky MP or B-mann caboose.  You could then blank out all but two or three windows in the coach section.

[sd45elect2000]

One thing lacking in N is a wood baggage/mail or RPO.  It looks like you could bash a baggage/mail from the Athearn/MDC overland combine.  You would have to add a door and mail hook mid-body.  You could fashion a door or cut one from a junky MP or B-mann caboose.  You could then blank out all but two or three windows in the coach section.


I'll certainly second that . lots of these wooden cars were used into the 50s and later.

[Maletrain]

For an introductory clinic, I think it will capture the interest of the most new people if you can emphasize the range of types of "operations" that people do in N scale, from simply switching a siding on a roundy-round to simulating the operations of a real section of a real railroad, including track arrangements, train designations, freight and passenger stops, dispatching, signaling, waybills and/or switch lists etc.  I think the emphasis needs to be strongly oriented to "do what you want, and don't feel the need to do what you don't want to do."  And, I think it needs to emphasize that it is not hard to "use the layout you have" for some simple ops, rather than needing to build a layout that is designed for ops from the beginning. 

Getting new folks to actually experience some ops is the most addicting activity, and then they will sort themselves into their specific interests.  So, I also think it would help if there is something like a T-track modular setup with maybe a 2-track staging module set up behind a scenic module with a couple of U modules connecting them at the ends, so that you could actually demonstrate an N scale train coming in, stopping, switching a car in and a car out of a siding, and going on. That starts from a roundy-round perspective and adds the simplest switching move.  If you can demonstrate the uncoupling with a magnet, fine, but also use a pick, so that people can see how simple it can be.  Then talk about how to make this type of activity as easy or complicated as people feel like making it, maybe with some slides or video.  Engine facilities might interest a substantial number of people, too, especially turn tables, because they may have more locos than space to run them all, and loco and cab changes on through trains can also be part of "ops."

I think the actual demo with real N scale equipment that actually works smoothly will be an eye opener for a lot of the roundy-round thinkers who may come to your clinic to see what ops is about.  I probably don't even have to say that any demo of ops is best done with a DCC setup.  Maybe instead of having the road engine switch that car, have it just stop and break the train, and then have a local switcher make the moves with the 2 cars.

And, to really communicate your concept of using ops as a great way to establish and expand local networks of model railroaders, can you demonstrate that   by inviting interested clinic attendees to do some minor ops on your demo module, maybe having the more interested ones get a chance to do some moves on one of the display layouts at the Convention, or even having one or more local MRs with layouts have open houses to which interested clinic attendees are invited at the clinic?

[John]

this might give you some ideas

http://www.gatewaynmra.org/1999/designing-model-railroad-operations/

[Nato]

     I held operating sessions on my layout recently dismantled (when house was sold). My Branch line which was basically a separate  railroad connecting to my main line system served industries that were switched using  a simple car card system. The cards were in packets and cars coming off the branch went to the main yard where there were also card holders on the facia so that cars in different in or out bound tracks could be identified. Destinations for the cars were on the cards included  empty cars that had to go to a destination to be loaded. Then the card was flipped indicating the car was to go East or West on a train going roundy- round several laps to the main yard for sorting. It worked quite well for a simplified system. Nate Goodman (Nato). Salt Lake, Utah.

[greenwizard88]

Whoa, looks like I hit a nerve. I never said that you can't run ops in N scale, only that the scale doesn't make it easy. And there's no need to be purposefully obtuse, you know exactly what I mean.

But, since I should offer constructive criticism, here's an idea: Lean towards what N scale does well. They say that in O scale you model a locomotive, in HO you model a train, and in N scale you model a right of way. So instead of switching some cars out here or there, ops is your intermodal train trying to get to port with a rock slide forcing the main line down to just one track, or an excursion steam engine running a string of cars to the yard before it has to go find water (ESU decoders have a water and fuel level you can actually check). Maybe Amtrak broke down, and you need to get helpers from NS to pull your train, and still make it to the station on time while navigating around the freight trains.

[peteski]

Whoa, looks like I hit a nerve. I never said that you can't run ops in N scale, only that the scale doesn't make it easy. And there's no need to be purposefully obtuse, you know exactly what I mean.

But, since I should offer constructive criticism, here's an idea: Lean towards what N scale does well. They say that in O scale you model a locomotive, in HO you model a train, and in N scale you model a right of way. So instead of switching some cars out here or there, ops is your intermodal train trying to get to port with a rock slide forcing the main line down to just one track, or an excursion steam engine running a string of cars to the yard before it has to go find water (ESU decoders have a water and fuel level you can actually check). Maybe Amtrak broke down, and you need to get helpers from NS to pull your train, and still make it to the station on time while navigating around the freight trains.

Your post is very patronizing. You really don't seem to get it. Hit a nerve? Neah.
OPS in N scale can be done to the same level as in larger scales.  You can switch individual cars on industrial spurs just as well in N scale as you can do in 0  scale.  Been there, done it, can do it again.  Sure, some older operators with failing eyesight might need to use bifocals and a small flashlight to read the car numbers, but that by any means is not a deterrent.

[jdcolombo]

"the scale doesn't make it easy."

If you want a quality operating railroad, it isn't easy in any scale.  I've seen horrendous trackwork in HO.  It's true that in HO you can "get by" with mediocre track because of the increased mass.  But many HO folks refuse to power their frogs, resulting in operational issues - particularly stalling of short-wheelbase locos.  This can be overcome by installing keep-alives in everything, but why not power the frogs?  And while some HO locos run beautifully out of the box, many don't.  So if you really want superb operation, you have to fix them.  Same with N.  If you read articles from the 1970's or 80's, you'll see that HO folks were preaching the same list of things for good operation as I listed for N-scale in my post above.  I didn't invent anything new; I just followed the advice of high-level HO operators and applied it in N.  They aren't any different, and changing poor wheelsets on an HO-scale car isn't any easier than on an N-scale one.  Kadee couplers aren't any less fussy than MT couplers.  I know - I've done this work on HO stuff owned by friends who operate on my N-scale layout and invariably ask me "can you get my HO stuff to run as well as your N stuff?"

And finally, N scale has one major advantage for operations: size.  You can fit a lot of operating railroad in a modest room in N.  Not in HO.  The size advantage can be used in a variety of different ways, including more realistic scenery, or just spreading out towns so that it takes more than 5 seconds of real time to get from one to another.  A prairie looks like a prairie in N; mountains look like mountains.  Etc.  If you're in to super-detailing equipment, then HO, or better yet, O scale is your best bet.  People do it in N, but that IS extremely difficult (and then most people can't see it anyway).  But for operations, it really isn't any more difficult than in HO if you don't tolerate slip-shod work.  Yes, mediocre will work in HO and probably not in N.  So if someone is interested in just "getting by," by all means adopt HO.  But if you are meticulous, the techniques and time involved are the same in both scales, and work just as well in both scales.

I will concede that N-scale reporting numbers are harder to read . . . (yet several of my operators who are in their 70's seem to cope somehow).

John C.

[jdcolombo]

Here's a good example of why N-scale's size is a major advantage both visually and operationally if deployed correctly. 

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This is a photo of *part* of the steel mill scene on my layout.  Notice how the buildings absolutely dwarf the trains.  If you've ever been to a real steel mill, you know that this is how it is in real life.  Steel mill buildings are enormous.  In fact, the buildings you see in this photo are Walters HO scale steel mill buildings (kit bashed, in the case of the oxygen furnace in the foreground), because the HO scale buildings sold by Walthers really are the correct size for . . . N scale.   They are way too small for HO even though they were marketed as HO scale.  My entire steel mill scene occupies a 20' long by 2' deep section of my layout, and includes two more buildings the same general size as the ones in the photo.   To recreate that in HO, you'd need 40' x 4' minimum, and the top of the blast furnace might well hit the ceiling of your room.  And also notice the track - there are two mainlines at the edge of the layout, then a 3-track holding yard and then all the track feeding the various mill buildings.  And yet it doesn't look cramped.  Yes, a real mill would have a larger holding yard, but I had to do far less selective compression on this scene than one normally would do in HO.  And in O?  Yeah, if you've got a 100' x 100' outbuilding with 12' ceilings for your layout, go for it.

John C.

[John]

I decommissioned my steel mill because I didn't have the space to do it justice .. I haven't decided if I want to revisit it on fremo modules ..

[Pomperaugrr]

I agree that operations are possible in any scale.  Sure, physics may dictate that there is a little coupler slinky effect in N scale, but that does not mean operations need to suffer. 

I will add that N scale does require attention to detail when laying track and in reliable wiring.  My N scale layout is designed as a large switching layout to mimic the operations and actual car capacities of customers along the Housatonic RR shortline.

This represents Specialty Minerals, in Canaan, CT.  It is located on the remnants of the old CNE line.  The Housatonic switches it out up to two times per day.  I think N scale provides an advantage for switching operations like this, as actual car capacity and scale siding length come into play. [ Guests cannot view attachments ] [ Guests cannot view attachments ]