Montana Rail Link 2nd and 3rd Subs - "The Divide"

[John]

To me it just says that everyone who's modelling prototype is full of ***** because they make it all up as they go, while claiming it's prototype based. Or worse, the people who are looking at their work and say "Oh, yeah I can see it" as if they recognize the locations and areas on the layout matching exactly the real world.

I guess I am really full of ***** then ..

[John]

Both of these are good options .. now the question -- which one do you like ?   I'd go with that ..  You have the bench work .. lay some track down .. and see what comes of it ..

Following the comment from @wazzou, I went back to the LDEs I was considering and created two shorter versions of my railroad, excluding Missoula and DeSmet. Instead I included Garrison, Phosphate, Sliver Bow. Helena will be the only main yard and source of local traffic.


I like the Option 1 for its diversity, having both Three Forks (5th Sub as a branchline) and the Port of Montana at Silver Bow as an interchange (although sharing the space with Garrison).




I like the Option 2 for its simplicity, the True North orientation of the railroad and somewhat larger spread between elements. But it does not have as much variety as the Option 1, though the potential is there to be added.

It has also occurred to me that @coldriver was talking about this exact route few pages back as his modelling interest prior to opting to build the Oregon Joint Line instead, so bonus.



Your comments would be much appreciated.

Thanks.

[trainzluvr]

I guess I am really full of ***** then ..

There, there...admitting is the first step towards healing.

I'm salty because I had been berated and verbally abused on certain other forum several years ago (back when I knew less), about the only one "bona fides" way of doing things, while asking too many questions (or dare I say shaking the status quo). I suppose there is a limit on how much one can ask, especially when they are starting up again, and should instead just follow, e.g. "you've been told many times" and "so and so had told you already". Needless to say, you've seen some replies at the beginning of this thread from my stalkers...errr groupies.

Anyway, I try to be respectful of everyone and keep in mind we all have opinions and different ways of doing things. But I'm totally against having to "lower" myself into submission, drink the Kool Aid, and not be treated equally, or with basic level of respect. Those who are proponents of such methods are not teachers, educators or mentors.

[trainzluvr]

Sorry for being MIA, work got hectic and the days keep zooming by, I'm sure everyone knows that tune.

Bit of an update on the layout plan - been working on hashing out the track arrangement and industries in a few locations, as well as adding some scenery references.

• Had to take some (freelance) liberties with a few places such as the Skyline Viaduct (only 4 towers), Townsend bridge over Missouri River (only 1 span of truss bridge),
• Graymont Limestone in Townsend isn't as big as I'd like it and I'll have to sacrifice at least one spur to make room for some structures,
• Logan CHS Fuel Transfer facility looks crammed in the alcove, tbh not sure what I can do about it,
• Still don't hava a picture in my mind how to do the Helena yard, and industries there - benchwork is pretty tight and I'm considering to widen it by 2-3 inches and sacrifice the aisle space.

C&C always appreciated.

Thanks!

EDIT: Oh yeah I added signals as well, marked with S over a mast.

[nkalanaga]

For the fuel facility, you could model it with pipes for extra tanks leading "off stage", into the aisle.  These could be above ground, or, in some such facilities I've seen, only the valves are above ground, and the pipes then go underground.  That would be even easier, since you wouldn't have to explain "dead end" pipes.

Add some containment berms along the edge, with just the side parallel to the edge, and very short sides, and it would look like you have a much larger facility.

[Philip H]

• Graymont Limestone in Townsend isn't as big as I'd like it and I'll have to sacrifice at least one spur to make room for some structures,

Could you swap the main to the front, and then use flats and images on the backdrop to get your desired structures?

• Logan CHS Fuel Transfer facility looks crammed in the alcove, tbh not sure what I can do about it,

What @nkalanaga said

• Still don't have a picture in my mind how to do the Helena yard, and industries there - benchwork is pretty tight and I'm considering to widen it by 2-3 inches and sacrifice the aisle space.

Depending on the features you want, the linearity you have may be enough to strongly suggest the yard, even if its not wide enough.  I wouldn't impinge the aisle any.

[trainzluvr]

Thanks for the comments guys, I'm still brewing all these ideas.

Helena is the only big city and where my main class. yard is going to be. Whether it's actually performing those duties or not in real life, well it is what it is. I'm trying to account for necessary capacity to serve industries down the line eastbound.

I realized that I don't have any industries beyond the Divide going west, except for Phosphate and UP/Silver Bow Interchange at Garrison. This at least made me feel good about my serendipitous planning, as one of you noted they wouldn't be pushing locals over the Divide.

Still mulling over the Graymont plant in Townsend, and will come back to that soon. If I put the mainline closer to the aisle, then i break the geography and ruin the tie with the 287 freeway going along it. Perhaps I need to remove one spur instead?

Another realization was that my Trident isn't where it should be geographically (before Logan coming from Townsend). But, I don't have the room for Logan on the shelf where Trident is right now.

I added Phosphate - represented as 2 spurs off the main line, but I don't like its current location. It's situated in the nook at the beginning/end of the layout. What if I put it as a branch off the main within Garrison, as in the image below?

I also thought about swapping the location of CHQ Gas and Three Forks interchange, and moving the Propane Dealer into the main area of Logan.

What do you think about all this, operationally would it work, I know that geographically/prototype track arrangement is not correct?

[nkalanaga]

Since Phosphate is west of Garrison, moving it would be closer to reality.  And it really is "in a nook" as about all that can be seen from the highway, or mainline, is the spur disappearing around a corner!

https://www.google.com/maps/@46.5582609,-112.8725907,1191m/data=!3m1!1e3?hl=en

[trainzluvr]

Since Phosphate is west of Garrison, moving it would be closer to reality.  And it really is "in a nook" as about all that can be seen from the highway, or mainline, is the spur disappearing around a corner!

https://www.google.com/maps/@46.5582609,-112.8725907,1191m/data=!3m1!1e3?hl=en

In my revision though it's attached to the main from within Garrison proper as it seemed like a good spot to branch off. And let's not speak about that spur going in the wrong direction (west instead of east).

[ Guests cannot view attachments ]

[nkalanaga]

True, but "within" Garrison is still closer to reality than "east of Garrison".  Actually, the mailing address for Phosphate Road is Garrison, so one could say that it's "within Garrison"!

[trainzluvr]

Over at FB MRL Railfans group they posted a few cool shots of the area I'm modeling in Townsend so I'll add them here for inspiration. Not sure what the reposting policy is, so if admins think this is not ok, please remove.


MRL 127 and 250 leaving Helena for the Limestone plant in Townsend, photo by Vance Pomerening, 2022-02-17



MRL 127 and 250 crossing the truss bridge over the Missouri river in Townsend, photo by Thomas Hollenstein, 2022-02-16



MRL 127 and 250 working the Limestone plant in Townsend, photo by Thomas Hollenstein, 2022-02-16

[Ed Kapuscinski]

I think you're gonna want to pay attention to the home backdrop printing thread: https://www.therailwire.net/forum/index.php?topic=53567.0

[trainzluvr]

I think you're gonna want to pay attention to the home backdrop printing thread: https://www.therailwire.net/forum/index.php?topic=53567.0

Wow those look really cool.

Thanks for the heads-up!

[trainzluvr]

Hello,

Seems it's been over a month since I posted anything. Work has been interfering with my spare time latelely, meh.

Been trying to finalize the layout plan in the spare time, and now have a new version posted for your comments, ideas, and suggestions...please!

Some changes:

• Swapped Logan and Trident - they are now in correct geographical order
• Added Missouri river to Trident area now there's more space for it
• Reversed the Lombard area so that the river is on the correct (to me) side of the track
• Built a generic version of Helena Yard with industries in the city (because the prototype look couldn't fit)
• Silver Bow/Port of Montana is unfinished but added a small UP Interchange yard to feed cars in
• ...

I'd like to know what all of you think about the Helena Yard trackplan (the Engine Facility looks like a mess doesn't it?); new (crammed) Logan location; whether Trident deserves almost the entire aisle; whether Garrison needs all those tracks or should I take one out; or anything else that comes to mind.

Thank you!

[nkalanaga]

Helena:  It doesn't need much in the way of diesel service.  Most maintenance was done in Livingston, which is off your layout.  Fuel, sand, water, and maybe some minor repairs would be enough.

You're going to have to use Avon as a switch lead to switch the Garrison interchange, but I'd say move one of the tracks.  You need a mainline, a passing track, and at least one siding in Garrison proper, and the two tracks on the Silver Bow line would work fine for an interchange.  The only problem I see there is "how does the Port of Montana RR run around their train without fouling the MRL tracks?"  If they pull their train into track 1, and track 2 has the cars dropped off by MRL, how does the engine get on the front of the return train? 

If possible, I'd remove the second siding in Garrison itself, and add a third track to the interchange yard, for a runaround.  Cars to PMRR go in track 1, cars from PMRR go in track 3, and track 2 goes straight through.  MRL can push cars into track 1, and pull from track 3.  PMRR pulls in through track 3, uncouples, runs back on track 2, backs into cars on track 1, picks up their caboose (if used) from track 3, then pulls them back to Silver Bow.