Intermountain Responds

[CBQ Fan]

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Note esp. the centerbeam and the cars that follow.

I don’t have one of the prototype, but I don’t think one that did this would stay in one piece for very long.

Ed

Odd, I really don’t get that effect on my layout.  I was thinking more along the lines of slack.

[ednadolski]

Odd, I really don’t get that effect on my layout.

With freely-rolling cars it’s usually most pronounced under 10 scale mph or so, or on a down grade.  The loco in the video is doing roughly 5-7 scale mph, on a 2.1% grade (but it’s easy to make it happen on level track too).

[signalmaintainer]

If prototype trains had as much slinky as microtrains couplers have they would be all over the ground...

You notice an excess of cushioned drawbars in a train but you dont see cars bouncing like MTs do...

And slack running in and out is different.

Exactly. There is no "slinky effect" on the prototype.

[CBQ Fan]

The track on my layout is level so I don’t have any operating issues so that explains why I don’t see one of the symptoms. I also have a very wide range of cars with different couplers. It is really funny. I have been in N scale 1990 or so and always thought of the slinky effect as just an exaggerated slack effect not, what I would call, an inchworm effect.

[peteski]

It is really funny. I have been in N scale 1990 or so and always thought of the slinky effect as just an exaggerated slack effect not, what I would call, an inchworm effect.

Some people can't stand the effects, while others find acceptable. As I see it, since the MTL couplers have sold well for many decades, most modelers don't really object to the slink, since those couplers work *REALLY* well, and look more prototypical than Rapidos.

[jagged ben]

I'm honestly not sure why it's so bad for him, but Ed's issues shown in the video strike me as extreme.  I usually only see the slinky on the last car on the train or with older cars that haven't been properly weighted.   I run on similar grades at similar speeds.

[ednadolski]

I'm honestly not sure why it's so bad for him, but Ed's issues shown in the video strike me as extreme.  I usually only see the slinky on the last car on the train or with older cars that haven't been properly weighted.   I run on similar grades at similar speeds.

Actually most of the cars in that vid were newer, OOTB ExactRail or similar.  With a resonance effect it’s a matter of hitting upon the right (or wrong, depending on how you think of it) combination of friction, speed, weight, grade, curvature and so on. I suspect that it’s not uncommon for folks to run their trains actually a bit faster than they might realize, but here is one with just a single car, at pretty low speed, and apparently level track:

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[ednadolski]

.... and look more prototypical than Rapidos.

Not exactly a high bar there....

[peteski]

Not exactly a high bar there....

Well, it is what it is.
 Also remember that even in the 3rd decade of the 21st Century the clunky Rapido coupler is still widely used all over the world.  The bar might not have been set very high, but IMO the MTL N scale knuckle coupler is leaps and bounds (visual and operational) improvement over the Rapido coupler.

[ednadolski]

One other vid, similar cars on same track at same speed, same loco too. However all cars were converted to LEZ couplers,  so not a single pogo to be seen. 

[peteski]

One other vid, similar cars on same track at same speed, same loco too. However all cars were converted to LEZ couplers,  so not a single pogo to be seen. 

No question about the superiority of LEZ couplers, but how many modelers will do the conversion?  Not only those couplers are not truly available retail, this type of conversion is not something that an average modeler will want to take on on (especially since many are satisfied with their current couplers).  Remember, the wide adoption (in the USA) of MTL knuckle coupler took decades, and that is even with RTR rolling stock being offered with them.  Conversions were available from Kadee/MTL, but we have to remember that back in the '70s and '80s larger percentage of modelers were the "craftsman type" not afraid to do the conversion. In today's model rairoading, many prefer RTR models with details already added, prepainted structures, etc. The wide adoption of the knuckle coupler was also greatly aided by the MTL's patent expiration.

As I see it, LEZ couplers are something that elite modelers like you (and few similar caliber modelers here) will chose to convert to.  There is some hope that the ProtoMate might eventually replace the MTL couplers, but ProtoMate might be too large for your liking.

[nkalanaga]

"resonance effect" can affect the prototype as well.  In the 60s and 70s, when 100-ton grain hoppers were new, several roads had trouble with them derailing, usually on straight, level track.  The problem turned to be that some of the cars had truck centers very close to 39 feet - the same as the standard length of jointed rail.  Since the rail joints were staggered, both trucks on a side would hit the joint at the same time.  On branch lines, the joints were usually lower than the middle of the rails, due to wear and tear, combined with deferred maintenance.

Thus, first one side, then the other, of the car would drop, and the car would start rocking.  At the right speed, the motion would match the car's resonant frequency, it would start to swing like an inverted pendulum, and rock itself right on over!

The first solution was to impose speed restrictions.  The best was to fix the track.

[ednadolski]

No question about the superiority of LEZ couplers, but how many modelers will do the conversion?

“Superiority” is a pretty subjective way to put it, but re:conversions it’s only @GaryHinshaw and myself as far as I know.  Availability, amt. of work needed, compatibility, and more... these are all pretty legit reasons why it’s not an appealing option for many.

From where I sit, it’s just a matter of doing what works best for myself.  I’ve always been bothered by the notion of doing the detailing and weathering efforts, only to watch the models bouncing to and fro on the layout, which takes a fairly big bite out of the fun of it....

Ed

[GaryHinshaw]

Not really sure how we got from "Intermountain Responds" to slinkies and LEZ couplers, but there you go.   [Aside - or on topic if you will: I sure hope IM has lined up a high-quality supplier for their 3281 hoppers.]

On the subject of LEZ's: they continue to be just about everything I've wanted in an N scale coupler.  Sure they could be more prototypically styled, and come in a wider variety of shank lengths, etc., but they exist and, aside from the lack of pocket, they solve all of the complaints so many of us have had about other existing N scale options.  (Hopefully the Protomates will eventually do so on a commercial scale with drop-in-place compatibility.)

At the risk of sounding like a broken record, allow me to effuse once more about my 3-d printer  .  Since I started playing around with LEZ's more than 10 years ago, I managed to convert a whopping 3 of my Atlas corn syrup tanks to LEZ's using various pocket solutions (along with a number of other cars).  Since designing & printing the replacement end frames with integral pockets, I've managed to convert 6 cars in the last week, with far better results in terms of ease and speed of installation, reproducible results, and borderline stunning detail to boot.  [Not sure why I felt compelled to post this here, aside from the fact that I'm still really giddy about it.]

[peteski]

. . .
, I've managed to convert 6 cars in the last week, with far better results in terms of ease and speed of installation, reproducible results, and borderline stunning detail to boot.  [Not sure why I felt compelled to post this here, aside from the fact that I'm still really giddy about it.]

Gary, I hope that you don't mind me saying this, but seeing a world renowned astrophysicist getting all giddy about adding couplers to few more of his tiny model RR toys makes me giddy too.   

And yes, we are practicing one of the finest Railwire off-topic diversions here. We are all really good at it.    TRW is the best!