CN Grande Cache Subdivision

[Missaberoad]

@Missaberoad - it's great to be back!  We are in the Calgary area so explorations are more focused on Kananaskis and the Ghost River areas, but I'll get up to the Grande Cache area soon.  Still lots of snow in the bush up there.

Nice. We are in the Olds/Sundre area so our stomping grounds is between Ghost River and Ram Falls usually. Hoping to head north of hw16 this summer tho, one of our lockdown vacation plans. 

The drive south of Canmore on 742 thru Peter Lougheed park is well worth checking out BTW... Very pretty country!

[Cajonpassfan]

That damn electrical box...how high is its  top?

[CRL]

You indicated the 2 yards ended up next to each other… I assume on different levels? If so, you might want to consider a mushroom arrangement where one yard is worked from one side of the mushroom and the other yard worked from the opposite side. Don’t know if you can pull that off, but if you can flip the layout to put the yards next to those posts, you have the support structure already in place.

[Scottl]

Nice. We are in the Olds/Sundre area so our stomping grounds is between Ghost River and Ram Falls usually. Hoping to head north of hw16 this summer tho, one of our lockdown vacation plans. 

The drive south of Canmore on 742 thru Peter Lougheed park is well worth checking out BTW... Very pretty country!

We're in Airdrie, so we are practically neighbors!  Ram Falls and Ya Ha Tinda are other favorites of mine. 

[Scottl]

That damn electrical box...how high is its  top?

About 6'- it really precludes anything on the wall there.  I wish they would centralize utilities in these houses.  This is such a random location for the electrical.  Moving it though is expensive and would result in a lot of junction boxes.  We'll have to work around it.

[Scottl]

You indicated the 2 yards ended up next to each other… I assume on different levels? If so, you might want to consider a mushroom arrangement where one yard is worked from one side of the mushroom and the other yard worked from the opposite side. Don’t know if you can pull that off, but if you can flip the layout to put the yards next to those posts, you have the support structure already in place.

Yes, the yards would be on separate levels.  This is definitely an issue that to consider, but with about 20' of yard length, I think this should minimize operator interactions?  Need to know more about the yard operations before getting to caught up in worrying at this point.  My sense is a lot of the yard work is moving power, blocks of cars and doubling trains over the hill.

On the positive side, @mark dance has introduced me to someone who works for CN in the area and is very familiar with the subdivision.  We are hoping to get track plans for the yards and this person has many excellent photos of the line (including great aerial drone shots).  Hoping also to get a bit of a tour from him to the hidden spots at some point, hopefully this summer.   

[Cajonpassfan]

About 6'- it really precludes anything on the wall there.  I wish they would centralize utilities in these houses.  This is such a random location for the electrical.  Moving it though is expensive and would result in a lot of junction boxes.  We'll have to work around it.

Agreed, I get it. Too bad, because the outside walls are your best opportunity to max out the run.

Food for thought: some years ago I designed a Cajon layout for a friend that had one of its “hidden” staging yards, with a return loop, at 72”,  high above his division yard, see sketch below. Its fascia formed a valance, with trains staged behind it. A long, visible grade up to it, trains disappear up high in a cut, or a summit tunnel. A cheapie camera to monitor trains in staging, access when needed on a step stool. My own upper end staging is at 75” in an adjacent garage, see pic. Works great.

You could consider putting your upper end staging over the electrical box, run a long grade along the top wall (top in original drawing) all the way to the bathroom wall, loop back on a turn back curve and drop down to a comfortable elevation to the rest of the layout? You could do some big mountain backdrops on the wall behind the grade and the modeled scenery could be spectacular...

Like I said, food for thought...fun stuff!
Otto

[basementcalling]

Did you post a plan with both levels? The one I saw on page 1 only showed 1 level, or I could only depict track locations for 1 level. Or is the second level all staging?

[Scottl]

Agreed, I get it. Too bad, because the outside walls are your best opportunity to max out the run.

Food for thought: some years ago I designed a Cajon layout for a friend that had one of its “hidden” staging yards, with a return loop, at 72”,  high above his division yard, see sketch below. Its fascia formed a valance, with trains staged behind it. A long, visible grade up to it, trains disappear up high in a cut, or a summit tunnel. A cheapie camera to monitor trains in staging, access when needed on a step stool. My own upper end staging is at 75” in an adjacent garage, see pic. Works great.

You could consider putting your upper end staging over the electrical box, run a long grade along the top wall (top in original drawing) all the way to the bathroom wall, loop back on a turn back curve and drop down to a comfortable elevation to the rest of the layout? You could do some big mountain backdrops on the wall behind the grade and the modeled scenery could be spectacular...

Like I said, food for thought...fun stuff!
Otto

Thanks for the suggestion Otto, that is something that might be possible and would use the space well.  Staging will be a key part of making this work and I like the idea of having it visible with a configuration like that.

[Scottl]

Did you post a plan with both levels? The one I saw on page 1 only showed 1 level, or I could only depict track locations for 1 level. Or is the second level all staging?

I'm only showing the bare bones of one as I'm near the limit of objects in the freeware  and the second level would be nearly identical.  Staging could be very different for the level with Swan Landing as that junction looks to be very busy with mainline traffic and train building for the Grande Cache Sub.

[CRL]

Agreed, I get it. Too bad, because the outside walls are your best opportunity to max out the run.

Food for thought: some years ago I designed a Cajon layout for a friend that had one of its “hidden” staging yards, with a return loop, at 72”,  high above his division yard, see sketch below. Its fascia formed a valance, with trains staged behind it. A long, visible grade up to it, trains disappear up high in a cut, or a summit tunnel. A cheapie camera to monitor trains in staging, access when needed on a step stool. My own upper end staging is at 75” in an adjacent garage, see pic. Works great.

You could consider putting your upper end staging over the electrical box, run a long grade along the top wall (top in original drawing) all the way to the bathroom wall, loop back on a turn back curve and drop down to a comfortable elevation to the rest of the layout? You could do some big mountain backdrops on the wall behind the grade and the modeled scenery could be spectacular...

Like I said, food for thought...fun stuff!
Otto

This is what I love about this particular category - Layout Engineering Reports. Some of the crazy solutions people come up with that would be laughable in normal layout design forums, but could be a really great solution to an apparently unsolvable problem. Even better that it’s given me a possible solution to some unmovable physical barriers in my future layout room.

Love it!

[Cajonpassfan]

Thanks for the suggestion Otto, that is something that might be possible and would use the space well.  Staging will be a key part of making this work and I like the idea of having it visible with a configuration like that.

Hmm, could the other end staging approach be under the electrical box? Even just a narrow shelf? Of course the high/low staging concept would only work with only half your line: east slope or west slope. Hmm...is there a summit tunnel?
Thinking out of the box here
Otto

[Scottl]

Thanks Otto, always interested in suggestions outside of the box! 

For what it is worth, here is a shot of the electrical box (+internet mess) in question:



The west and east slope aspect is surprisingly tricky to handle.  The way I am envisioning it now is to have a summit helix that moves from the lower to upper deck.  That way both decks have a similar overall climb/descent which is prototypical.  My thinking has been that the two terminal yards are best located on the outside of he layout with the more generous space for operators there.  This partly offsets the disadvantage of having stacked yards.

As I learn more about operations on the prototype, I am coming to understand that Winniandy is likely to have less yard activity and will be more of a location to originate and terminate whole trains.  By contrast, Swan Landing seems to be a hub of activity where congestion has led CN to add additional tracks in recent years.  That sounds like a great prototype for operational interest.

While I'm at it, here is the space right now viewed from the sitting area space.  Unimpressive but lots of potential.

[Cajonpassfan]

Hmm, so if the top of the box is at 72”, what’s the ceiling height?

[wazzou]

Looks like about 76".