Repowering the old LL F40PH?

[daniel_leavitt2000]

I have a few F40PH engines that I'm painting up for MBTA in anticipation for the Rapido Comets. Two are the Kato Phase III units and two are old Phase I LL shells, which are a good stand in for Phase II. The MBTA ran 10 Phase II units and about half a dozen Phase III.

I'm having trouble trying to find a good donor chassis with correct truck spacing. The GP35 seems a bit short and the GP40 seems a bit long. Any ideas?

[peteski]

  About 30 years ago I repowered 3 Model Power F40PHs, the ones with with plastic chassis and crappy motor (not Life Like since that one was not even produced yet) using then-new Bachmann GP40/GP50 chassis (also fairly new at the time).  Truck spacing looked ok to me, but back then I didn't really worry about things like that. As long as it looked ok and pulled my Amtrak train well (which those did) on the NTRAK layout, it was good enough. check out that truck mounted plow and MTL coupler.
That was back in DC days, and I installed constant lighting circuit for the headlights and number boards. I also had the center-cab red light flashing (without really knowing if that was prototypical or not). No, I didn't get the strobes to flash, but they were somewhat illuminated by the number boards bulbs. The fuel tank was reshaped, and battery boxes and air reservoirs were added. Oh yeah, I also added those JnJ brass etched steps, wire handrails at the rear, and plugged up the frame latch holes in the sides of the shell. It looked good and people liked it.



I would think that Life Like unit is similar, and that GP38, 38-2, or 40 from Atlas or Kato would be a good candidate to replace the Life-Like mechanism. 

[craigolio1]

According to data sheets from the diesel shop website, the GP38/40/50  is 1ft longer between the truck centres.

https://www.thedieselshop.us/Data%20EMD%20F40PH.HTML

https://www.thedieselshop.us/Data%20EMD%20GP40.HTML

That’s close enough for me. That said I don’t know if a chassis from say, Atlas, and the Life-Like loco body are accurate.

Craig.

[Mark5]

GP35 = 32' between bolster centers
GP38/39/40, GP38-2/39-2/40-2 = 34' between bolster centers
F40PH = 33' between bolster centers

So your observations are correct Daniel.  How about using the Kato F40 chassis?

[cjm413]

GP35 = 32' between bolster centers
GP38/39/40, GP38-2/39-2/40-2 = 34' between bolster centers
F40PH = 33' between bolster centers

So your observations are correct Daniel.  How about using the Kato F40 chassis?

If Kato F40PH isn't an option, there's also:

C424 = 32'6"
Other Life-Like split frame chassis will accept Atlas trucks, so I presume the C424 is no different.   I assume the price on these should drop given Atlas will likely re-release them with some improvements.

FP7/9 = 34'
This is duplicative of GP38/39/40-2, but would provide more weight.   I recall IMRC will also accept Atlas Blomberg M trucks and/or side frames, but don't quote me on that.   

[davefoxx]

I would think that Life Like unit is similar, and that GP38, 38-2, or 40 from Atlas or Kato would be a good candidate to replace the Life-Like mechanism.

Yep, in fact, in the early 2000s, I kitbashed an N scale Life-Like F40PH exactly in this manner.  I believe I used an Atlas GP40-2 mechanism under the Life-Like shell, which gave me the correct type of Blomberg trucks.  I scratchbuilt the fuel tank, air tanks, and other underframe details.

DFF

[u18b]

Someone might just ask...... why would anyone want to do this?

One possible answer is phases.

The Kato model is a phase 3.

The Life Like model is a phase 1.

The only other good options are the excellent and expensive brass.

[StarCruiser]

If anyone asks why...just say "I am a model railroader". That should cover it...   

[Steveruger45]

I’m glad to see the great knowledgeable info come out to the original question.  I was wondering the same thing.  Thanks all.
BTW I too noted the Wheel spacing of the atlas gp35 was a bit short and gp40 a bit long. I’m glad also no one answered to then try a GP37.1/2
😉

[daniel_leavitt2000]

Thanks guys for the ideas. I pulled together a very strange mechanism from my parts bin:

Atlas GP38/38-2/40/40-2 frame halves.
LL Motor, universals and worms from a BL2
LL Blomberg M trucks from some GP38-2 or GP60

I'll see if everything works correctly when I get home from work.

Now to figure out the fuel tank area.

[peteski]

Daniel,
If the reason you want to use Life-Like shell on a better mechanism is because it has more accurate details, then why not use the excellent Kato F40PH mechanism?  The fuel tank, battery boxes, and air tanks on the Kato model look correct for the early MBTA units. 

[Wutter]

I have a few F40PH engines that I'm painting up for MBTA in anticipation for the Rapido Comets. Two are the Kato Phase III units and two are old Phase I LL shells, which are a good stand in for Phase II. The MBTA ran 10 Phase II units and about half a dozen Phase III.

I'm having trouble trying to find a good donor chassis with correct truck spacing. The GP35 seems a bit short and the GP40 seems a bit long. Any ideas?

Correct me if I'm wrong, since I'm just going based on the Rapido F40PH master class prototype distinctions: https://rapidotrains.com/master-class/ho-scale/diesel-locomotives/f40ph-master-class

I think the Kato Metra F40PH is Phase 2b since it has the forward fuel tank, 4 rear ribs under the radiator section, and the fans are not recessed into the roof (they will need to be backdated to non-Q fans using etched parts depending on your era). Of course you'll also have to remove the front ditchlights, roof AC and beacon depending on your time period but it seems like less work doing the shell modifications than fitting a mechanism into the Life-Like shell?

[wm3798]

I'm glad that there are guys out there who sweat this level of detail.  It does, in fact, push the hobby and the manufacturers forward.

I'm also glad I'm not one of them!  JFRTM!

I hope the bash works out for you, @daniel_leavitt2000 ...  Looking forward to your master craftsmanship applied to the problem.

Lee

[peteski]

Correct me if I'm wrong, since I'm just going based on the Rapido F40PH master class prototype distinctions: https://rapidotrains.com/master-class/ho-scale/diesel-locomotives/f40ph-master-class

I think the Kato Metra F40PH is Phase 2b since it has the forward fuel tank, 4 rear ribs under the radiator section, and the fans are not recessed into the roof (they will need to be backdated to non-Q fans using etched parts depending on your era). Of course you'll also have to remove the front ditchlights, roof AC and beacon depending on your time period but it seems like less work doing the shell modifications than fitting a mechanism into the Life-Like shell?

The earlier Kato runs of F40PH locos had no ditch lights or AC units. I have about half a dozen of them. I think the last "original" run was in 2011 (first run was IIRC in 2005).  They also have small forward fuel tank, so even fewer modifications.

But depending on which time period Daniel is modeling, ditch lights would be correct, or on the earlier versions hood-mounted marker lights.  But in either case the dynamic brake details will have to be removed.

[eja]

I'm glad that there are guys out there who sweat this level of detail.  It does, in fact, push the hobby and the manufacturers forward.

I'm also glad I'm not one of them!  JFRTM

Lee

Right there with you, Lee.   

Unless the folks that see your trains running are equally as knowledgeable as you,  I would expert their reaction to along the lines of "Oh, nice.  I remember those".

Also nary a comment about phases or details.

Just pleasure in seeing a memory reflected in someone's model railroad and possible envy regarding the fact that they don't have one of their own.