Impregnating FUD with CA?

[Ed Kapuscinski]

One of the only drawbacks of @Lemosteam 's beautiful RS3L horns are that they're FRAGILE.

I was wondering if, given the porous nature of FUD (or FXD), if it'd be possible for it to soak up some super thin CA to add some additional strength.

Before I start playing with glueing my fingers to the various sprues I have sitting around, has anyone tried this?

[peteski]

One of the only drawbacks of @Lemosteam 's beautiful RS3L horns are that they're FRAGILE.

Thanks for the chuckle Ed.
Remember my comments about just that in the horn thread?  The material is too brittle for such small details to survive very long.  That is why John encased them in cages for printing and cleaning.  But they do look great! 

Details like that are much sturdier when made from brass.

Ca itself is also brittle, so I'm not sure if that would make much difference.  I believe that is a "rubberized" version of CA available, but I believe that is on a thick side, so it probably would not soak into those horns.  But if you have some thin CA and another horn, you could try an experiment.

[basementcalling]

3, 2, 1......

[ChristianJDavis1]

One of the only drawbacks of @Lemosteam 's beautiful RS3L horns are that they're FRAGILE.

I was wondering if, given the porous nature of FUD (or FXD), if it'd be possible for it to soak up some super thin CA to add some additional strength.

Before I start playing with glueing my fingers to the various sprues I have sitting around, has anyone tried this?

Maybe not soak in, but at least give it a sort of "outer shell" that might make it a little stronger. Where are you having the most breakage? Given how small and fragile these are, I'm assuming it would not be practical to drill into and insert a small metal rod (think microscopic) covered in CA into a hole drilled all the way through a bell? that way even if it does break, it's still glues to the rod, which will not fall off. Maybe it's just almost-4:00am brain making me think of silly ideas.

[Lemosteam]

@peteski, yes I know they are fragile.  I am still waiting for a brass example that is even close to this detail.  If you have one, can you show a photo?

Ok so I offered two potential solutions in various threads.

First, FUD/FXD is VERY POROUS and can absorb a lot of volume.

Second, @Ed Kapuscinski , yes you can do this but I have no evidence that the model will be come stronger per se.  Please test the theory!

Third, on the Bondic thread I suggested that maybe if that resin is thin enough to absorb into the FUD, then the UV light could be used to cure that.  I believe that filling the model completely cold eliminate some high stress riser areas created but the printing process. I asked here.

[C855B]

This is why I asked about photoresin output in the other thread. Obviously you're the man when it comes to FXD, but my experience with fine details in FXD echoes Ed's, it is a challenge to handle without breakage. My experience with the Photon is that its resins are much stronger at thin cross-sections; I can repeatably hold 0.008" walls. Oh, it's still brittle, but much less so. This (I believe) points to an issue that FXD's sintered process and resulting porosity work against thin-wall strength. Worth considering.

[Lemosteam]

Unfortunately details get blended and sharp edges aren't very effective in the resin solution.  Now flexible resin... Have you tried that?

[C855B]

Flexible resin? No, wasn't even aware it existed, but I'm still mostly just wading in the 3D printing pond at the moment. Is this what AnyCubic labels as dental resin, or something different?

I could certainly use something a little less breakable on a couple of projects.

[Mark W]

Unfortunately details get blended and sharp edges aren't very effective in the resin solution.

Come on man, you know that's not true. 


As for strength of resin parts, remember these?




Let's see how they held up... one second.. I know there here somewhere..




Ah ha!


https://i.imgur.com/GcqZiRK.jpg

[C855B]

Come on man, you know that's not true.    ...

Found the flexible resin: Monocure FLEX100. Apparently it's mixed with standard resin, the ratio of the mix determining the relative flexibility. Expensive-ish at ~$100 a liter. Might play with it later.

[MK]

My bet is that thin CA (or CA in general) won't work.  Too brittle after it has cured.  And the other stuff mentioned is too thick to soak in.

I think a different material is the way to go.  Anything thicker than thin CA (which is VERY thin) will only start to obscure details and edges.

[CNR5529]

As it happens, I currently have a need for a weird a$$ Nathan 5 chime horn that the CPR installed for a time on their 3 E8a units. The top two chimes faced backwards, and the bottom three faced forwards. Needless to say, there is no commercial part available for this... so I drew one up and printed it on the Photon. Lets see how it holds up!

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[Ed Kapuscinski]

As it happens, I currently have a need for a weird a$$ Nathan 5 chime horn that the CPR installed for a time on their 3 E8a units. The top two chimes faced backwards, and the bottom three faced forwards. Needless to say, there is no commercial part available for this... so I drew one up and printed it on the Photon. Lets see how it holds up!

(Attachment Link)

The bells there look to be twice the size of John's. That does change things.

BTW, I haven't had any problems yet. I'm just planning for the potential to have them.

My actual plan is to have a bunch of spares and to use Walthers Goo to attach them.

The takeaway from this thread is that I think I need to do some testing myself. I guess I better get some acetone for the inevitable... lol.

[Maletrain]

Not sure how this would work, but I have been using penetrating epoxy to treat some wood projects, and that stuff is basically just 2-part epoxy made very thin with some solvents that evaporate away (with great stink effect) after carrying the epoxy deep into the wood pores.  That stuff is not cheap, so I tend to do experiments in batches and have not gotten around to several tests I have in mind.  But, I wold think that it could penetrate FUD or FX parts pretty well after they had a Bestine bath, and the excess could be shaken or wicked off the outside surfaces to avoid covering details.

[Lemosteam]

Come on man, you know that's not true. 

As for strength of resin parts, remember these?

Let's see how they held up... one second.. I know there here somewhere..

Ah ha!

You know that I am not referring to the horn shape at all.  I am referring to the bolt heads that hold the horns together.  FXD can print those- crisp and clean (except where the WAX makes contact, of course).

Just because something is tiny, does not mean it represents or prints crisp and clean (certainly no offense to you or your designs).  I'll send one of my horn models to print to prove my point.  You know bloom and excess resin on the corners and collecting in grooves is my biggest beef with resin printing and so far NO ONE has proven that this is unavoidable just as no one has proven that the fuzzy FUD can be eliminated.  Let me know when the Photon can print the hexes below, cleanly, after cleaning the part and curing.  They will look closer to rivets. "Change My Mind" as the meme goes.   LOL

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Honestly I wish there was a printer that could do both.

@Ed Kapuscinski

How about a post cleaning macro image like the one above of your horns.  Pretty certain those features will be there.