Question Regarding MT 2004 Underslung couplers

[Lemosteam]

I had a very old pair of unassembled 2004 couplers, and notice that there is no snap in the lid, as opposed to the 1015 lid.  I no longer had the instruction sheet.  I looked at the MT site and the instruction page is not fully imaged.

-What method do you guys use to secure the lid on these?

I ended up heat flashing along the seam with a soldering iron, but I am not sure if that is the best way to do this. 

Could someone post a pic of a pre-assembled one to see how MT does it?

@Shipsure Can you comment?

[Missaberoad]

Heat or thick CA is the methods I'm familiar with...
Personally I just assemble them as needed and use the screw/clip to hold them together...

[samusi01]

I use a soldering iron on the similar 2003 series. For 2004, I do the same as @Missaberoad in just using a clip. Came in handy the other day when I had to do some coupler swapping.

[randgust]

Not totally OT, but the last set I got of these had a significantly bigger knuckle on it that the ones I had many years ago.  These looked BIG to me.

It's the same kind of issue that if you put current MT body mounts beside MT's made back in the 70's, pronounced difference in vertical height of the knuckle.   It's so remarkable that when I checked against a micrometer, the legacy ones were just a shade bigger than a current Z scale head.

These used to be a good fit in the tender of the Atlas 2-6-0 as well as other little steam and now they kinda look oversize.  Anybody else notice this?  Or am I the only one still using couplers that are almost 50 years old?

Further wandering off topic, I'd really like to see a "T"-shank close-clearance Z coupler, instead of the full box length, that would be just the ticket for  steam pilots and a whole lot of other applications where that longer box is just too long to not interfere - F-unit rear ends, various diesels, all kinds of equipment.    Big fan of the Z couplers on N equipment, particularly on small stuff and locomotive pilots.

Back OT, I'm using a soldering iron prior to mounting, just lightly on the corners.

[Bill H]

Slightly off thread but I usually put the 2004 under slung coupler in a 1015 box, works fine. I use this combo on a lot of  tenders.

Kind regards,
Bill

[thomasjmdavis]

I've always used heat, but rather than a soldering iron, I heat up an old xacto blade (in a handle) with a soldering iron or on the stove.  That way, I am not gumming up the soldering tip with plastic, plus I find it more control-able.

[Trnsrus]

"...It's the same kind of issue that if you put current MT body mounts beside MT's made back in the 70's, pronounced difference in vertical height of the knuckle.   It's so remarkable that when I checked against a micrometer, the legacy ones were just a shade bigger than a current Z scale head..."

I asked a MTL rep exhibiting at the last NSE convention when Micro-Trains increased the size of the N scale Magnematic coupler head and showed him my 1970s vintage coupler gage which contains a small headed coupler. His reply was that the head size was never changed and that my gage had been refitted with a Z scale coupler. AFAIK, my gage was purchased in the 1970s and I have never replaced the coupler. I have other early production Kadee N cars equipped with the same smaller coupler.

Barry Cutaia

[peteski]

"...It's the same kind of issue that if you put current MT body mounts beside MT's made back in the 70's, pronounced difference in vertical height of the knuckle.   It's so remarkable that when I checked against a micrometer, the legacy ones were just a shade bigger than a current Z scale head..."

I asked a MTL rep exhibiting at the last NSE convention when Micro-Trains increased the size of the N scale Magnematic coupler head and showed him my 1970s vintage coupler gage which contains a small headed coupler. His reply was that the head size was never changed and that my gage had been refitted with a Z scale coupler. AFAIK, my gage was purchased in the 1970s and I have never replaced the coupler. I have other early production Kadee N cars equipped with the same smaller coupler.

Barry Cutaia

Z scale couplers are visibly different all dimensions.  Unless you really have a Z scale couplers in the gauge (which BTW, is designed for 1023/1025 coupler box), then that is a lame excuse.  I don't even know when Kadee/MTL first produced the Z scale coupler.

[DKS]

"...It's the same kind of issue that if you put current MT body mounts beside MT's made back in the 70's, pronounced difference in vertical height of the knuckle.   It's so remarkable that when I checked against a micrometer, the legacy ones were just a shade bigger than a current Z scale head..."

I asked a MTL rep exhibiting at the last NSE convention when Micro-Trains increased the size of the N scale Magnematic coupler head and showed him my 1970s vintage coupler gage which contains a small headed coupler. His reply was that the head size was never changed and that my gage had been refitted with a Z scale coupler. AFAIK, my gage was purchased in the 1970s and I have never replaced the coupler. I have other early production Kadee N cars equipped with the same smaller coupler.

Barry Cutaia

I know for a fact that Micro-Trains has lost track of the origins of some of their products. Even the founders themselves have contradicted the reality of what they'd made: a friend of mine showed one of the Edwards brothers their earliest coupler, and he denied they ever made blackened trip pins. Their N Scale coupler has been retooled multiple times over the years--as have their wheels--and they appear to have changed most every time. By contrast (AFAIK--I last checked around 2011), they have only ever tooled one Z Scale coupler.

 

[nkalanaga]

The knuckle "grew" about the time they introduced "Reverse Draft Angle" couplers, because the N-Trak crowds couldn't keep 100-car trains coupled.

And, yes, I still have a lot of old couplers.

I've long thought that the best thing they could do for those who want smaller couplers would be a Z coupler designed to fit a 1025 or 1015 box.  Just swap out the coupler itself.

[learmoia]

I've long thought that the best thing they could do for those who want smaller couplers would be a Z coupler designed to fit a 1025 or 1015 box.  Just swap out the coupler itself.

And they come up with an entirely new design with a new box that is completely incompatable with anything else in the product line (in operation and instilation).

~Ian

[bbussey]

The 2001/2004 boxes require heat-sealing with a soldering iron. I just put the 2004 knuckles in a 1015 box.  Same with 1019 knuckles and 1016 boxes. It’s been rare that I need the thinner profile 2004 box, although i did require them to body-mount MTLs on the Atlas NE5 and NE6 cabooses.

[Steveruger45]

I dab them with a hot old exacto blade