Horizon and Comet Cars in N & HO - Plus a lot more!

[daniel_leavitt2000]

I'm starting to think we should revisit out trepidation on Rapido making the F40PH... Kato seems uninterested in anything not Amtrak and Metra. Nor do they seem motivated to make a non dynamic brake version.

If Rapido made the F40, they could easily have commuter and Amtrak train sets.

[wcfn100]

I'm starting to think we should revisit out trepidation on Rapido making the F40PH... Kato seems uninterested in anything not Amtrak and Metra.

And Kato won't make a phase 1 body style.

Jason

[peteski]

@Ngineer , narrow and wide refers to the blue and red stripes. We originally called them Phase 3 Early and Phase 3 late but Amtrak asked us to change our wording.

Narrow was the early Phase 3 scheme


And wide is the later phase 3 scheme

So Amtrak is not on-board with the "Phase" naming modelers came up with for the various paint scheme versions?  They dislike it enough to complain about it? 

What is the official Amtrak paint scheme naming scheme (from the broken arrow to the today's scheme)?

[Ed Kapuscinski]

What is the official Amtrak paint scheme naming scheme (from the broken arrow to the today's scheme)?

I thought it was "pointless arrow".

[peteski]

The subject discussion here made me dig up some older photos of these cars I had in my collection.  This in turn reminded me of the more care-free times we had back before 9-11.  So, allow me a little OT diversion.

Back in the '80s, when I just got into photographing trains, things were much more relaxed and photographer-friendly.  Too bad that these freedoms were curtailed due to the changes brought on by radicalized countries and individulals. 

In the late '80s I lived just couple of miles from (and passed by almost every day) the Boston Southampton Street Amtrak Maintenance Facility.  Accessing it  for photography was easy those days. I would simply drive up there, park in the employee parking lot, take my trusty Nikon SLR and find the nearest Amtrak employee.  I would explain that I like to take some  photos of the trains, that I know how to properly behave on active railroad facilities, and they would simply let me loose on the property. IIRC, they even gave me a hardhat to wear (the rules).   This is unimaginable nowadays.


So this is the start of my journey at the facility in 1989.


Without any clue that 30 years later I would be able to buy a model of them in N scale, I just happened to spot a rake of freshly delivered Horizon cars!  Diaphragms are still wrapped.


It is a DO NOT HUMP placard pasted in the center of the car.


And of course some Comet cars were also spotted in the yard.

Can't  believe that it was 30 years ago!


Also, on another occasion, I was lucky enough to participate in a tour of the facility. I was able to take lots of photos of things that are not normally photographed (like the Amfleet truck details viewed from below, or a wheel turning lathe.  This is the overall view of the facility.

[peteski]

I thought it was "pointless arrow".

I know that, but it is pointless to argue this  point.   
Just having some fun . . .

[Point353]

Every reference to "Comet" cars has me thinking of this:

[Ed Kapuscinski]

Every reference to "Comet" cars has me thinking of this:

You know, I'm actually kinda amazed that Micro-Trains hasn't done that yet.

If BLI does a heavy pacific it'd be a no-brainer money maker.

[basementcalling]

>>>>

Can't  believe that it was 30 years ago!

Damn, how did you get the camera inside @mark dance 's engine house on the C & R?

 

[peteski]

Damn, how did you get the camera inside @mark dance 's engine house on the C & R?

 

LOL!  You know, I like to mess around with nanoelectronic devices.   

[Ngineer]

@Ngineer , narrow and wide refers to the blue and red stripes. We originally called them Phase 3 Early and Phase 3 late but Amtrak asked us to change our wording.

@rapidomike

Thank you for your explanation.

Were the dinettes used together with Amfleet cars? That would give me a reason to buy them.

   Javier

[nickelplate759]

@rapidomike

Thank you for your explanation.

Were the dinettes used together with Amfleet cars? That would give me a reason to buy them.

   Javier

Yes, and they still are. 

[Mark5]

You know, I'm actually kinda amazed that Micro-Trains hasn't done that yet.

At a minimum, will need a standard length combine (coaches are single window or double?)

[rapidomike]

So Amtrak is not on-board with the "Phase" naming modelers came up with for the various paint scheme versions?  They dislike it enough to complain about it? 

What is the official Amtrak paint scheme naming scheme (from the broken arrow to the today's scheme)?

@peteski , The big one was actually Phase 4b, which Amtrak calls phase 6.

Information below is to the best of my knowledge - keep in mind that I'm a Canuck, so I might have made an error here!

• Phase I would be the broken arrow, blue and red stripe. Metroliners and RDCs (and others) had a thin white stripe outside of the blue and red stripe, while the F units had no white stripe.
• Phase II is basically the same but without the arrow. Slight changes to the red colour (I think? Might just be how it appears in various photos).
• Phase III is the three stripe variant. On later Phase IIIs, the blue and red stripes are wider than the middle white stripe.
• Phase IV is very similar to what we have now, Phase VI. Phase IV the Amtrak wordmark on sides. Dark purple-ish blue with two red and two white stripes.
• Phase V was initially introduced with the Acela Express, and was also used on the P42, Sprinters and Chargers. The Chargers have a red stripe between the blue and grey colours. The P42, Acela, etc only have the red stripe along the bottom of the locomotive body. The sprinters are grouped in with phase V but had a modified promotional scheme. The Acela trainsets fall into Phase V, but have no blue stripe. I think the "Capstone" scheme used on the Amfleet Is are also included in Phase V, but I might be wrong on that one. I'm guessing that the Amtrak Midwest scheme on the Chargers also fall into Phase V, but not totally sure.
• Phase VI - very similar to Phase IV, but the Amtrak wordmark was replaced with the current day logo. The blue is also a bit more blue and less purple-y than the Phase IV.

California and Cascades stand on their own and are not grouped in with any of the phases.

[peteski]

@peteski , The big one was actually Phase 4b, which Amtrak calls phase 6.

Information below is to the best of my knowledge - keep in mind that I'm a Canuck, so I might have made an error here!

• Phase I would be the broken arrow, blue and red stripe. Metroliners and RDCs (and others) had a thin white stripe outside of the blue and red stripe, while the F units had no white stripe.
• Phase II is basically the same but without the arrow. Slight changes to the red colour (I think? Might just be how it appears in various photos).
• Phase III is the three stripe variant. On later Phase IIIs, the blue and red stripes are wider than the middle white stripe.
• Phase IV is very similar to what we have now, Phase VI. Phase IV the Amtrak wordmark on sides. Dark purple-ish blue with two red and two white stripes.
• Phase V was initially introduced with the Acela Express, and was also used on the P42, Sprinters and Chargers. The Chargers have a red stripe between the blue and grey colours. The P42, Acela, etc only have the red stripe along the bottom of the locomotive body. The sprinters are grouped in with phase V but had a modified promotional scheme. The Acela trainsets fall into Phase V, but have no blue stripe. I think the "Capstone" scheme used on the Amfleet Is are also included in Phase V, but I might be wrong on that one. I'm guessing that the Amtrak Midwest scheme on the Chargers also fall into Phase V, but not totally sure.
• Phase VI - very similar to Phase IV, but the Amtrak wordmark was replaced with the current day logo. The blue is also a bit more blue and less purple-y than the Phase IV.

California and Cascades stand on their own and are not grouped in with any of the phases.

Mike, thanks for taking the time for wiring down this info - I appreciate it. I was already familiar with the Amtrak livery  Phases. Similar info is accessible on https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amtrak_paint_schemes (good reference).

Now I understand  why Amtrak was not thrilled with your "early/late" nomenclature (and not upset with using Phases nomenclature in general). But Phase III scheme does have couple of variations, so  that should be called out.
In majority of examples of Phase III all 3 stripes are even width. One exception are the Amfleet cars where the white stripe appears to be the same width as in all the other Phase III cars and locos, but the red and blue stripes are extra wide, making the 3-stripe set wider than the standard Phase III stripe set.  So I think you were correct to call that fact out.  While I have no first hand knowledge about the reason for wide Phase III stripes, I suspect that the Horizon cars were originally painted with the narrow Phase III stripes, but then the wide Phase III stripes were used to match the stripes on Amfleets.  Then there is an oddball Phase III variation on the Early P42 locos. They seem to be in between Phase II and Phase III "wide".

Here is a good example of even and wide Phase III.  The loco in the foreground has even Phase III stripes and the Afleet in the background has wide red/blue stripes.


BTW, the "broken arrow" was a joke.  It is called "pointless arrow".