Rapido speculation

[CBQ Fan]

Sure there is.
If you're going to blame "spikes" in the output of certain power packs for causing the decoders in your locos to fail, then provide some proof that the peak output of those power packs can exceed the limits established by NMRA specs. Likewise, provide some proof that the decoders can withstand the peak input voltage limits established by NMRA specs.

Again, some analysis that has been presented here in another thread seems to show that the peak output of an MRC 1300 does not exceed the limits of the NMRA specs.
Do you have proof to the contrary?
If so, will you present it on this forum?
 
Although the decoder failures may seem to coincide with the use of certain power packs, that doesn't establish which device may be at fault.
 
You still appear not to be grasping the situation.
It's not about the disclaimer itself.
It's about the lack of any supporting information to back it up.

This is just ridiculous. Asking one company to “prove” something about a product that they don’t produce is just plain stupid. They identified a problem and are warning their customers that the related items don’t play well together. So buy at your own risk.

[GhengisKong]

@rapidotrains can we at least get a hint if it is a steam or diesel locomotive?

[learmoia]

@Point353

2 questions:
1: Do you have a Home Built or MRC 1300 power pack?
2: Do you have a Rapido Sound loco?

If your answer to either of these is NO, then why do you care one way or the other, and why should we place any value on your insignificant opinion.

If you have a Rapido loco that was fried by an MRC powerpack, then I suppose you have a right to complain, but Im pretty sure other mfgs have similar disclaimers within their documents.

~Ian

[rapidotrains]

@rapidotrains can we at least get a hint if it is a steam or diesel locomotive?

Sure. At this point we have no N scale steam in development. We need to get our first North American HO steam to market first to make sure we know what we are doing. We've done British steam, but it's a different beast.

-Jason

P.S. The latest newsletter can be read here: https://conta.cc/2KyM5Bt  It includes quite a lot of behind-the-scenes stuff.

[Mike C]

Sure. At this point we have no N scale steam in development. We need to get our first North American HO steam to market first to make sure we know what we are doing. We've done British steam, but it's a different beast.

-Jason

P.S. The latest newsletter can be read here: https://conta.cc/2KyM5Bt  It includes quite a lot of behind-the-scenes stuff.

 Let me suggest again GTW 6325 ......

[Narlie]

Yes, back on track ! What we would like to see. Hmmm
How about some LRC coaches and a VIA F40PH
Why not a new look bus!

[Englewood]

I'm a huge fan of Rapido's way of doing business. I also like their products. And I really enjoy their videos and newsletters. These guys are having fun with model trains. Something some people seem to have forgotten how to do. And because I saw BC Rail 4601 all the way down here on the Texas Gulf Coast last week, I'll add it to my order.

[nickelplate759]

I took the bait and looked that the newsletter teaser images. The newsletter says one picture is of tooling being cut for a locomotive, but I can't see anything I recognize there.  The other is part of what seems to be a finished mould - to me it looks like it could be for a passenger coach interior.

That's all I could figure out  - it's not much.

[pdx1955]

Rapido has a full page ad on the back cover of the latest N-Scale Magazine announcing the "biggest N scale Canadian new product announcement ever" . In her background is the same filter grill image , but now there is also what looks like a fan grill with a what appears to be a flat center.

[Point353]

@Point353

2 questions:
1: Do you have a Home Built or MRC 1300 power pack?
2: Do you have a Rapido Sound loco?

If you have a Rapido loco that was fried by an MRC powerpack, then I suppose you have a right to complain, but Im pretty sure other mfgs have similar disclaimers within their documents.

1: Yes.
2: I have FL9 locos with the optional decoders not yet installed.

I'd like to get a quantitative response from Rapido regarding this issue.
They don't respond to e-mails and you can't reach them on the phone.
They keep failing to respond (except with jokes) to inquiries, here, as well.

What are they hiding?
Or, is there no one on their staff that can provide a proper technical explanation?
What is the amplitude of the "spikes" that they claim to be damaging the decoders they supply with their locos?
Do those "spikes" exceed the maximum voltage that NMRA standards allow?
Can that maximum voltage be applied to the decoders they use without damage?

[Specter3]

Dude, you have asked that over and over again. Jason said he put the disclaimer out and fried decoder issues went down significantly. So, assuming he isn’t lying, he was correct from his business standpoint to issue the warning. No in depth electronic research necessary. Many fried decoders start coming in. Way more than normal. Ask people sending in some basic questions. Pattern arises. Decoders keep coming back, customer questions confirm pattern. Issue warning against pattern. Returns diminish significantly. Warning worked. No in depth electrical analysis needed. Why would you bother? Jason didn’t design decoder. Probably doesn’t have anyone on staff that is a electrical guru to that level. I guarantee he has passed the info he has back to ESU. They do have electrical gurus on staff. They probably have dissected a few dead decoders. So I imagine they probably have an idea what is happening. Since ESU has not said anything you are free to draw your own conclusions. But until you line up a statistically significant sample of power packs to test and confirm they are all working appropriately, just knock it off. Manufacturing tolerances are highly variable depending on the company. Just go read Amazon reviews on cheap electronic gear. Some item will have great reviews for a year. Then suddenly the reviews turn to crap and for a few months the item seems to be garbage. Then the tide turns and the quality picks back up and the reviews start looking positive again. You get bad batches of parts, a machine gets out of tolerance, a line worker mails it in, crap happens. My dad worked in manufacturing of computer components and told me the stories. It is not Jason’s job to know and distribute the “Why”. For all we know ESU has told him to issue the warning and to not say anything else. That is all you are going to get. Get over it. If you cant please go back to your own thread(which I did read all of) and continue your rant there.

[Jbub]

Did rapido sell the unit with an optional decoder that was NOT installed? I know they have custom sounds files (complete with star trek references and general bafoonery  ) only available from them on their pre-installed dcc/sound models. Those are the decoders that have the warning. I don't think rapido would warranty a self installed decoder for any reason.

[Rossford Yard]

Watched the video.  Wow, love seeing the factory.  Also, glad all those hand applied parts are going on at $8 per day, not $8 per hour, or Rapido would have invented the $1000 plastic locomotive.  Don't like it from the "go USA" perspective, but it is necessary.

[peteski]

Dude, you have asked that over and over again. Jason said he put the disclaimer out and fried decoder issues went down significantly. So, assuming he isn’t lying, he was correct from his business standpoint to issue the warning. No in depth electronic research necessary. Many fried decoders start coming in. Way more than normal. Ask people sending in some basic questions. Pattern arises. Decoders keep coming back, customer questions confirm pattern. Issue warning against pattern. Returns diminish significantly. Warning worked. No in depth electrical analysis needed. Why would you bother? Jason didn’t design decoder. Probably doesn’t have anyone on staff that is a electrical guru to that level. I guarantee he has passed the info he has back to ESU. They do have electrical gurus on staff. They probably have dissected a few dead decoders. So I imagine they probably have an idea what is happening. Since ESU has not said anything you are free to draw your own conclusions. But until you line up a statistically significant sample of power packs to test and confirm they are all working appropriately, just knock it off. Manufacturing tolerances are highly variable depending on the company. Just go read Amazon reviews on cheap electronic gear. Some item will have great reviews for a year. Then suddenly the reviews turn to crap and for a few months the item seems to be garbage. Then the tide turns and the quality picks back up and the reviews start looking positive again. You get bad batches of parts, a machine gets out of tolerance, a line worker mails it in, crap happens. My dad worked in manufacturing of computer components and told me the stories. It is not Jason’s job to know and distribute the “Why”. For all we know ESU has told him to issue the warning and to not say anything else. That is all you are going to get. Get over it. If you cant please go back to your own thread(which I did read all of) and continue your rant there.

This is really starting to really piss me off!  All of this is conjecture and speculation without any specific facts.  This reminds me of the current political wranglings in USA. He said, she said, lots of fake or unsubstantiated info floating around. 

The only facts we know for sure is that when Max scoped out his MRC 1300, (a true scoentific test)  he determined that it does not produce voltages high enough to go over the maximums specified by ESU.

The other fact is that ESU itself has not issued any warnings about any DC throttles (or even specifically, the 1300).  I have no reason to think that Rapido's decoders use lower grade components (or ones designed for lower voltages) than what ESU uses in their other N and H0 decoders.

Since these are ESU-made decoders and we will never get any specifics from Rapido, why hasn't anybody asked ESU (or maybe specifically Matt from ESU USA) for their take on this situation. Come on guys - you want the truth - ask the decoder manufacturer.

If you also get a runaround then the next best thing is to get one of Rapido decoders and a MRC 1300 and scientific it for science. If and when it fries, figure out what got toasted.  I would do it, but I'm not really all that interested.

[CBQ Fan]

Sure. At this point we have no N scale steam in development. We need to get our first North American HO steam to market first to make sure we know what we are doing. We've done British steam, but it's a different beast.

-Jason

P.S. The latest newsletter can be read here: https://conta.cc/2KyM5Bt  It includes quite a lot of behind-the-scenes stuff.

@rapidotrains could you elaborate on what those differences are and how they translate to producing model trains?