Making a Bobber Caboose- PRR ND and Variants

[narrowminded]

I started this new thread so as not to clobber up @Ed Kapuscinski 's thread about his kitbash of a MA&PA bobber where this was first posted.  I copied the posts that applied to get it started  I'm going to follow through with this in a pretty accurate and detailed model and will appreciate any and all detailed construction information folks might have. 

Since starting the drawings and making the test print pictured I've found a LOT of pictures of a PRR ND that Strasburg RR has restored as well as a few photos of a MA&PA version furnished by @Chris333 .  I will probably make a road trip to Strasburg to try to get honest detail dimensions and component layout but would really appreciate any dimensional data that anybody might have so I can get a head start.  Things like frame materials (wood?) and dimensions, step detail dimensions, brake layout, siding board widths, and all such goodness.   I will lay out what I can, try to scale dimensions where I don't have any good ones, and get as far along as I can, and then if necessary make a final Strasburg visit to confirm and edit drawings where I have to.

First one, copied from Ed's thread found here: https://www.therailwire.net/forum/index.php?topic=46495.60

@Ed Kapuscinski If you want to do something it's not too late.   And is this what you remarked your Dad needed?

I played with the little bit of info I had, the one PRR ND drawing, to see what I might be able to do as I haven't done any boxed/ shell cars of any type so this seemed as good as any to get some practice.  So far, the dimensions are accurate per the drawing, the ones it has, and a little bit of scaling for things like window size and placement, and I'm generally happy with what printed.  For this test print I assembled it all and printed it in one piece but I have drawn all of the window frames and doors as separate components, as well as roof and cupola, to aid in sanding, paint, and assembly as well as choosing best print position.  Notice there are a couple of lines evident straight down the sides in the lower body half.  Those are from pausing the print to confirm it was staying attached with the supports I had placed, not something you would normally do and those lines wouldn't be on a final printed piece.

I only put board lines on one side, main body, to see how they would come out in print.  Neither end or the other side had board lines added.  I think I'll go a little deeper and wider, like .001" in each direction, but will final decide after the paint has really dried and shrunk completely.  The window frames, inner and outer, to accommodate actual glass sandwiched between without glue smudges, will need detailed and I think less frame projecting outward by about .002" and narrower with detail added to the mullions.  I'll seek photos for help on those details buut just guessed from the drawing this far.  Any comments, especially on general proportions, would be appreciated.

I still need frame details, like what size beams, and ladders or railings, all of that stuff, but can probably do pretty well with some good pictures for a lot of the details.  So far it's encouraging and I think I'll be able to do justice to this with the proper info.  

Here are a few pics of the test printed part as well as the drawing used.  I think I've at least got the proportions correct.

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[narrowminded]

Then there were these pertinent posts and exchanges within Ed's thread between myself and @Chris333.

I think that flat trim board under the ends needs to be pushed back to the wall.
http://www.btsrr.com/bts9006.htm

http://www.maparailroadhist.org/histimg/2006.jpg
http://www.maparailroadhist.org/histimg/cab2006.jpg

http://ctr.trains.com/~/media/images/the-way-it-was/photo-of-the-day/large-images/photo-of-the-day/2015/10/20151012.jpg

2006 was the one that was ex PRR.

Thanks for those links, Chris.  I just spent the night doing searches and I've got a LOT of pictures now with a LOT of detail.  Most are from the restored unit at Strasburg.  There are subtle differences, in things like the window trim and also the fore and aft trim in the center section of the cupola but they are clearly of the same basic design.  I knew the windows, based on what I could get from that drawing, were not going to be correct and I was right and both are different from each other.  I think a trip to Strasburg might be in the offing to complete this properly.  It also seems like it would lend itself to properly detailing a few very correct versions with the changes being so subtle.

My main purpose in doing this with just that rough drawing was to get my feet wet with some of the stuff that these projects will require and to get a start on it.  The whole drawing will be redone before the project's done, I'm sure, but I've seen enough to think I will be able to do an effort like this justice.  I also see various versions as well as detail level but the nice thing is, it's possible now where, at least to me, it wasn't before with Shapeways FUD as the alternative.  I just couldn't make myself get fired up over that material.  Finish and material characteristics left me stone cold, no interest in working with it.  I even tried a few times but just couldn't make myself do it.

And finally:

I wasn't getting what you were talking about there but I just realized what it was.  And yes, it definitely goes back and I don't think it even belongs there at all.  If you look at the drawing I was working with you'll see it but even while drawing it, it didn't feel right.  The Strasburg pictures show nothing like that at all, pushed back or out front.  The wood goes right up to the inner arch of the roof... I think.  What is there is an outer brace that extends from the body to support just that corner on each side.  Also, It looks like the cab corners are curved metal and might have brackets on them for corner marker lights.  There's a LOT of detail to do.

That is the meat of this to this point.  Any and all input is welcome.

[71jeep]

I did one in etched brass along time ago I built a few for myself and sold a couple kits to fellow modelers Chris333 who was one of them.
I am not sure if anyone ever finish theres ?
If you need anything I would be glad to help just email me or pm me .
Sorry I dont have any pics on hand right now to post but if you do a google search for n scale prr ND cabin or something like that you will a few pictures of my model.

[narrowminded]

I did one in etched brass along time ago I built a few for myself and sold a couple kits to fellow modelers Chris333 who was one of them.
I am not sure if anyone ever finish theres ?
If you need anything I would be glad to help just email me or pm me .
Sorry I dont have any pics on hand right now to post but if you do a google search for n scale prr ND cabin or something like that you will a few pictures of my model.

I think I did stumble on that when searching last night, all night.   Some of the key chassis detail dimensions would be very handy at this point.  The wheelbase is on that drawing but the frame rails, materials, and the related dimensions aren't there and not even enough to take a WAG at it.  From pictures I see where the windows need to be set in more, more flush with the inside face than outside, the mullions will be more narrow and probably have other details adjusted, the bump in the picture on the side of the cupola is actually a shade, and etc.  The ladder is angle iron.  Any idea what size?  Also, the rungs and railing diameters?  And how about interior?  I may detail that, even if only optional.

Do you know of any good dimensioned drawings that might have some of this stuff?

[Chris333]

Sorry to say I never finished Allen's model. I prepped all the parts and assembled a few things, but that's it. Still have it all and the parts are great. I was working on a generic Ma&Pa type layout and well you know me, put it in the queue.

[narrowminded]

I think I should do an Erie caboose, too. 

[Chris333]

One of the Ma&Pa bobbers came from the P&LE:
http://www.maparailroadhist.org/histimg/2005.jpg
http://www.maparailroadhist.org/histimg/cab2005.jpg

[narrowminded]

Are they shorter than the ND or is it my eyes?  And no tongue and groove sides? 

Add: And the ladders are right of center.

[Maletrain]

Hoping somebody, someday, will do the work to print a good B&O I-5 caboose in N scale.  I need some. And more skill development before I can scratch then together, myself.

[narrowminded]

Hoping somebody, someday, will do the work to print a good B&O I-5 caboose in N scale.  I need some. And more skill development before I can scratch then together, myself.

https://www.therailwire.net/forum/Smileys/classic/cool.gif

I may have opened a can of worms here but if there was enough interest and some narrowing down of models this could be another one.  

I just discovered RR Picture Archives!   This could be dangerous.

[narrowminded]

@Chris333 If you recall that face board that you thought needed moved back flush to the body and then I questioned it's existence at all, that was based on some pictures like this one that I think show it not existing.  Now maybe on the Ma&Pa.

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Then there's this pic.  With your vast experience would you hazard a guess as to some of those part dimensions?  The end of the frame, ladder angle iron, or anything else that strikes you?

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[learmoia]

What is with the cupola in the 3d print? Is that stepping in the layer formation?.. Beyond that, looks good.~Ian

[narrowminded]

What is with the cupola in the 3d print? Is that stepping in the layer formation?.. Beyond that, looks good.~Ian

Thanks, Ian.  Yes it is.  That surface goes up at an angle so the steps show and aggravated by being a test piece so I didn't print at the finest resolution, although that wouldn't have changed it much.  The angle will cause that to some degree regardless of the chosen layer heights.

But if you read all of the gory details in my earlier post about how I had designed this to have separate cupola, chassis, windows, doors, and the roof, so I could print at the best advantage but also to make access for painting and prepping easier, you have just identified at least one reason why I did that.   But for this test print, none of which is complete enough to be part of any final assembly, where I was trying to check other features like the board grooves as well as how it printed and appeared in general, I printed it in one piece, no selective favorable positioning, and that face doesn't come out great, as fully expected.  And while that one feature as well as the roof arched surface don't look perfect when left untouched in that rushed print, the design as it will be executed when it matters either fixes it or provides an out for the necessary detail work.    

And as a side note, while the process isn't perfect I would point out that some most of the Shapeways FUD prints I've received were exponentially worse than that in at least some area and you couldn't begin to get at them to sand the blemish out.    

We're still learning but at least for me this material and process is a huge step forward.

[peteski]

Since this whole Photon thing started here I have been consistently noticing that the surface quality of this printing method is much better than Shapways FUD and FXD (or whatever they call them nowadays).  That is quite important for small and detail-rich models.  Of course Lemosteam will point out that there are negatives too, like all the supports needed and the dimensional inaccuracies to name couple.  But in the grand scheme of things (especially since these are affordable 3D printers for home use), you have a winner on your hands.

Note to self: need to get proficient in 3D CAD. 

[Chris333]

Note to self: need to get proficient in 3D CAD. 

You can just wing it, like me