Next18 connector

[reinhardtjh]

Are all lokprogramers updatanle to v5?

I wonder if we are starting to see a plateau of miniaturization for sound decoders. Any space that could be saved using smaller or fewer components will be taken up with caps.

As far as I know, the new V5 (Currently V5.0.2) LokProgrammer software works with any LokProgrammer hardware. The programmer hardware will handle LokSound V3.5 (using the V2.7.9 LokProgrammer software), V4.0 (and Selects which are based on the V.40 hardware/firmware) and V5.0 LokSound decoders.  In addition to the LokPilot non sound ESU decoders.

[peteski]

Are all lokprogramers updatanle to v5?

I wonder if we are starting to see a plateau of miniaturization for sound decoders. Any space that could be saved using smaller or fewer components will be taken up with caps.

I think that the LokProgrammer hardware is simply a dumb or almost-dumb piece of hardware which receives the serial (USB) port commands and then sends them to the track. The smarts are all within the LokProgrammer software.  So the hardware should be compatible with any versions of software (until the hardware DCC protocol and the proprietary NCE data transfer protocols change). As far as I know, there is no updatable firmware within the LokProgrammer (unless it is done silently by the LokProgrammer software).  But I don't see a place where the LokProgrammer's hardware version is shown.

[cgw]

the current blue and black programmers are hardware version 3.X.   The changes in the case color and board layout was around 2007.  these can program lok sound decoders versions 2.x up to 5.X.     There is an older blue one (2002/3) that is required to program 1.0X and the lok sound classic decoders.    That programmer is not compatible with 2.0 and above and is no longer available. All the programmers are smart devices with a CPU to drive them.   

[Steveruger45]

Attached is the new loksound version 5 manual.  On Page 11 there are several variants of the loksound version 5 micro noted with different connections, 8pin, 6pin etc etc.
Interestingly the board sizes are also different those with the 6 and 8 pin connectors are bigger.

[RBrodzinsky]

I could have sworn I once saw an "updating LokProgrammer firmware" message after installing a LP Software release, but cannot find any reference to it in the release notes, so it just might be a false memory.

I was relooking at the German version of the LokSound v5 manual, and noticed this

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This is for the 6 pin adapter, but what is interesting is on the right.  It appears that there may be solder pads available on the "upper side" of the adapter (the 8-pin is slightly different, but all 11 pads are still there).  Only items missing would be the logic level Aux3/4 pads, not a big deal since 5/6 are available at the edge of the decoder.  I guess one could trim the flex lead (without shorting it)

[RBrodzinsky]

Attached is the new loksound version 5 manual.  On Page 11 there are several variants of the loksound version 5 micro noted with different connections, 8pin, 6pin etc etc.
Interestingly the board sizes are also different those with the 6 and 8 pin connectors are bigger.

Steve, I think the extra length is the "over hang" in front for the flex connector I note above.  Also, those dimensions say 10.6mm for decoder width, so no help on that front for narrow hoods

[jdcolombo]

Yep.  Manual says 10.6mm width.  Same as current hard-wired Select or V.4

Sigh . . . .

John C.

[Steveruger45]

Rick,
Yeah, the width and length is more or less the same as the 73800 version 4 select micro but thickness of 4.5mm is a little more.   The next 18 variant is thinner than the 6 and 8 pin variants too by 0.5mm.

[Jbub]

The problem with the next18 connector in conjunction with the 10.6mm wide board is that it's going to be difficult to put it on an angle to fit in narrow hoods because of the plug. I guess that dowses any hopes for an adapter board similar to the direct decoders.

[daniel_leavitt2000]

Rick,
Yeah, the width and length is more or less the same as the 73800 version 4 select micro but thickness of 4.5mm is a little more.   The next 18 variant is thinner than the 6 and 8 pin variants too by 0.5mm.

How did Scale Trains attach the Nex18 on their models while keeping scale width?

All this just proves  my point that we need an American company willing to pick up this standard and adapt it to American needs. For Christ sake, if  Streamlined Back Shop can design a new Zimo sound board, what is keeping TCS and Soundtraxx?

[Jbub]

I've been wondering the same thing about scale trains. I guess since my c39 came in the mail today I'll have to open it up and measure the decoder and the width inside the shell. I'm also looking at how to build an enclosure for the speaker. The sound level compared to my custom install sd70ace is very weak.

[Steveruger45]

How did Scale Trains attach the Nex18 on their models while keeping scale width?

All this just proves  my point that we need an American company willing to pick up this standard and adapt it to American needs. For Christ sake, if  Streamlined Back Shop can design a new Zimo sound board, what is keeping TCS and Soundtraxx?

Good question.  http://spookshow.net/loco/files/stcc39-8mech1.jpg    The image here for the nice new scale trains c39-8 seems to show the decoder mounted (plugged in) under the larger board and oriented horizontally.  Suggesting the decoder is either narrower than 10.6mm or the shell is 10.6mm or more wide.  Unless of course the decoder is proprietary for scale trains?   Anyone have one of these locos that could shed some light on that?

[Steveruger45]

I've been wondering the same thing about scale trains. I guess since my c39 came in the mail today I'll have to open it up and measure the decoder and the width inside the shell. I'm also looking at how to build an enclosure for the speaker. The sound level compared to my custom install sd70ace is very weak.

Ah.  You just beat me to the post while I was looking for the photo.  Saddened to hear your take on the sound though. 
Would appreciate any insight you could give if/when you take it apart.

[peteski]

How did Scale Trains attach the Nex18 on their models while keeping scale width?

All this just proves  my point that we need an American company willing to pick up this standard and adapt it to American needs. For Christ sake, if  Streamlined Back Shop can design a new Zimo sound board, what is keeping TCS and Soundtraxx?

Um, I don't think  that Bryan from SBS actually designed the decoder. He just provided some parameters (like the desired dimensions and keeping all the components on one side of the PC board), which were then used by ZIMO engineers.

I only own the Scale Trains Turbine set and that used a 21-pin connector, but it is a wide body loco, so it could easily utilize the Next18 connector. But narrow hood N scale locos?  Not so much.

How did Scale Train fit Next18 decoder in a narrow-hood diesel? Answer: They placed it in the wide nose/cab!  Cheaters!   


Here is an interesting review of the Next18 (and other standard connectors).  Note that it was done back in 2014 (so the standard has been around for a while)
https://www.locgeek.com/2014/07/next18-digital-interface-future-n-scale/

[Smike]

How did Scale Train fit Next18 decoder in a narrow-hood diesel? Answer: They placed it in the wide nose/cab!  Cheaters!   


Here is an interesting review of the Next18 (and other standard connectors).  Note that it was done back in 2014 (so the standard has been around for a while)
https://www.locgeek.com/2014/07/next18-digital-interface-future-n-scale/

You have that in reverse. The connector and decoder are in the rear (narrow section of the loco) The cab is on the right in that photo.