BLI F3 and F7

[mmagliaro]

At least part of my problem has for sure been dirty track (I tried a few non-BLI locos to verify). But I can't seem to get more than an hour or two out of the BLI's before they start misbehaving again, so I think I'm just going to return them. I'm used to having to baby BLI's, but this is above and beyond the call of duty.

-Mark

Before you box them up... try one thing.  Run them until they mysteriously start to slow down and sputter.  Then, do nothing and let them sit for an hour, then try to run them again.  That will be a strong indicator that it's a heat problem.

[cgw]

Mark you may be pumping too much volts to the track....     Over the years I have found that most n decoders love to run somewhere between 11.5 to 12.7 volts .   I actually left one engine run all week when I forgot to shut it down when I left for a business trip.       it still runs to this day with no issues.   engine runs cool.   All the BL engines I have running now are still running cool to the touch and I measured the temp with a IR pyrometer and found that the temperature rise is only abut 2 degrees.    HO scale is happy when the voltage is between 13 an 15 volts.        The excess voltage/current will typically end up as heat.   The excess electrical energy has to go somewhere.     If the decoder is getting hot to the touch one of the solder joints may be acting flakey on your decoder giving you the strange behavior.    As things heat up and cool down they rarely come back to the same spot.     


I am letting six of the units doe the Roundy thing all night to see what the temp rise is and if I get the flaky behavior.     I have contacted the misbehaving command station manufacturers and are waiting for feed back.     So far the bl units are behaving on the Digitrax DCS240 command station.      I am very impressed with the slow speed performance.     I guess I am going to have to turn down the volume and let them run all night to see what happens  more to come....................


.

[kverdon]

Mark, I may have gotten a bit lost. Is the testing you were doing prior to deciding to return the units on the E units or the F units?

[Cajonpassfan]

Please tell me where you got the new axle and the procedure to replace it! I have a first-run E7 that I want to pull more cars.

Sure. I got non-TT replacement axles directly from BLI, I think I called them. This has been a while, don't know if BLI still has them. The procedure is easy, pop off the plastic truck sideframes, replace the wheelset, press sideframes back on.

This greatly improves electrical pickup; more metal wheels on the track plus I think the TT's lift the middle wheelset off the track, resulting in just one truck axle solidly on the track; not good. It also makes the loco run smoother; my TT equipped units would sometimes skip a gear when under strain, as when one unit in the set goes dead.

But  this will not help you with pulling power, just the opposite. Not a problem or me as I run with multiple units. I did add some tungsten disks underneath the fuel tank to improve pickup and traction.

Hope this helps,
Otto K.

[spookshow]

Before you box them up... try one thing.  Run them until they mysteriously start to slow down and sputter.  Then, do nothing and let them sit for an hour, then try to run them again.  That will be a strong indicator that it's a heat problem.

Letting them cool down doesn't help. I tried that this afternoon (they were stalling before lunch and still stalling after lunch- at which point I cleaned the track again).

-Mark

[spookshow]

Mark you may be pumping too much volts to the track....     Over the years I have found that most n decoders love to run somewhere between 11.5 to 12.7 volts .   I actually left one engine run all week when I forgot to shut it down when I left for a business trip.       it still runs to this day with no issues.   engine runs cool.   All the BL engines I have running now are still running cool to the touch and I measured the temp with a IR pyrometer and found that the temperature rise is only abut 2 degrees.     

It was the F3's that I noticed ran very hot. I haven't noticed any excessive heat with these E6's.

-Mark

[spookshow]

Mark, I may have gotten a bit lost. Is the testing you were doing prior to deciding to return the units on the E units or the F units?

I gave up on the F3's a couple-three days ago. My latest issues have been with the new run of E6's.

FWIW, I have a Paragon3 AC6000 (purchased last year) that doesn't seem to have these issues on my layout. I suppose I should dig it out and see how it does after a few hours of running 

-Mark

[Cajonpassfan]

Does BLI have HO scale problems?

Well, that brings up a good question. The BLI site advertises the F3's in both N scale and HO, but "images are unavailable" for the HO version. Are they out yet? Do the HO shells have the same screwup with the grills reversed and the inverted truss gussets?
Otto K.

[reinhardtjh]

Well, that brings up a good question. The BLI site advertises the F3's in both N scale and HO, but "images are unavailable" for the HO version. Are they out yet? Do the HO shells have the same screwup with the grills reversed and the inverted truss gussets?
Otto K.

The HO F units are a week or two behind the N scale units in arriving from China via the west coast.  They should be shipping soon.

[Cajonpassfan]

Thanks. That will be interesting. If it's the same shell design, the HO guys will eat them alive. If it's been corrected on the HO model, I'll be doubly irritated with them.
Otto K.

[daniel_leavitt2000]

This sounds like an over heating issue to me. Maybe a specific component, and not the whole board. I wonder if cleaning the engine and wheels detaches whatever memory or keep alive unit they have inside and resets it.

I would love to see how the engines perform without the shell but with stick-on heat sinks used for computer ram.

One other ideas. What if you soldered a bronze "flap" to the outside of the truck pickup contact? These would lightly push against the but end of the axle and should greatly increase conductivity without sacrificing much friction.

Another idea... pull the decoder altogether and run it on the workbench to see of it degrades over time like it does on the layout.

One more idea... these are now radio equipped right? To power the layout sub. I wonder if this is causing some issues itself. Maybe deactivating this feature, or removing or extending the antenna would help. I know an antenna out of phase with it's power source can cause it to overheat and even cause internal feedback issues.

[peteski]

One more idea... these are now radio equipped right? To power the layout sub. I wonder if this is causing some issues itself. Maybe deactivating this feature, or removing or extending the antenna would help. I know an antenna out of phase with it's power source can cause it to overheat and even cause internal feedback issues.

Could you elaborate on this?  What is radio equipped? To do what?  There is an antenna on the BLI decoders?  Receiving or transmitting antenna? Even if the decoder had a transmitting antenna, we are talking about milliwatts of power.
Transmitting antennas don't have power sources themselves.  They are coupled to an output of a radio frequency power amplifier. That amplifier utilizes a DC power source.

[mighalpern]

I plan to test mine on my figure 8 test track  tomorrow and run it for a few hours.  I was going to take temperature reading every halve hour or so and see what it does.   This is not looking good as unfortunately my second unit is in the mail.  I might have to cancel the third one  ( hopefully  I can ) 
I am wondering: if it is a heat issue could the bubble wrap that separates the antenna be keeping in the heat, maybe trim it off a little ??  also I thought about drilling little holes in the fan areas to let heat out ???  but that's assuming that this is a heat issue.
Did the T1 's have all these teething issues???
BTW I was able to lower the volume setting and change address thru JMRI,  although it would write and then say no loco detected, but I could hear the loco accepting each new change with a little bump
 

[daniel_leavitt2000]

The amp is the part I think may be the issue.

http://spookshow.net/loco/blif3f7.html

That blue wire is the transmission antenna for the radio receiver on the Paragon3 layout sub.

I know from experience that if you remove the antenna, it can cause overheating and damage to the transmitter.

Here is the wheel contact I was thinking of:
[ Guests cannot view attachments ]

[peteski]

The amp is the part I think may be the issue.
http://spookshow.net/loco/blif3f7.html
That blue wire is the transmission antenna for the radio receiver on the Paragon3 layout sub.
I know from experience that if you remove the antenna, it can cause overheating and damage to the transmitter.

Ah, I get it now.  I couldn't figure out what you meant by "To power the layout sub."  I was like: power the layout subdivision?    You mean the Rolling Thunder subwoofer! Duh!
But that radio signal is not actually powering the subwoofer - it probably sends just low power (milliwatts) signal with either audio or some digital codes.  A subwoofer needs several Watts of power to give you that thundering sound. It is probably powered right from 120VAC.

Yes, if there is no load (antenna) on the output of an RF transmitter amplifier that can cause big problem. But again. even if the blue wire was disconnected, we are talking about milliwatts (assuming the blue wire is in fact disconnected). I would not expect any appreciable heating.  But  then again, I've never messed around with the Rolling Thiunder components.