Atlas Code 55 Turnouts...

[jdcolombo]

Ditto on the engine wheels.

I've never bought a diesel that didn't have narrow wheel gauge, and these cause problems on the Atlas Code 55.  The gauge really needs to be basically perfect to navigate the Code 55 turnouts.

John C.

[C855B]

I mentioned it at the beginning of the thread, but I'll reiterate the gauge issue. I have no trouble with any of my diesels on Code 55 turnouts... why?... because a year ago I upgraded nearly every loco I regularly run with Kato wheelsets. Each wheelset was individually checked for gauge, centered within the gauge slots as mentioned, before they went into the truck frame.

The only loco I have any problems at all with now - rarely, at that - is a Kato FEF. It is out of gauge enough to drop into frogs and looks pretty clumsy doing so, so I know I need to do something. My reticence in fixing that one is messing with an otherwise flawless-running steamer.

[peteski]

The only loco I have any problems at all with now - rarely, at that - is a Kato FEF. It is out of gauge enough to drop into frogs and looks pretty clumsy doing so, so I know I need to do something. My reticence in fixing that one is messing with an otherwise flawless-running steamer.

I think the reason it drops in the frogs is because it has a narrow tread.  I have couple and I am pretty sure I checked, and they were in gauge.

[John]

If I were to ever build another layout, I would scrap all my C55 turnouts and build them from scratch .. but I don't have enough time left at the rate I work

[C855B]

I think the reason it drops in the frogs is because it has a narrow tread.  I have couple and I am pretty sure I checked, and they were in gauge.

Slightly narrow - 0.066", vs. RP25 0.072", so good catch. Could account for some of it, but as suspected the back-to-back gauge of the drivers is also 0.006" tight. Total of 0.018" narrow across the wheelset is significant. It looks like I could increase the gauge by 0.008" and still be within tolerances. Certainly worth a little bench time.

[strummer]

Oh!  I thought when you said you checked the wheels, you meant that included the engines.  Yes, what Peteski said.

I did mean the loco wheels; I replaced the wheels on all my cars.


Anyway, yes, check the LOCO wheels.  I bet they are narrow.

I will go about re-checking them...God help me...    

Are your engine riding up on the point rail that is pressed against the main rail? 

Always at that point rail...

Mark in Oregon

[mmagliaro]

Slightly narrow - 0.066", vs. RP25 0.072", so good catch. Could account for some of it, but as suspected the back-to-back gauge of the drivers is also 0.006" tight. Total of 0.018" narrow across the wheelset is significant. It looks like I could increase the gauge by 0.008" and still be within tolerances. Certainly worth a little bench time.

My 0-6-0 only has .045" wide driver treads, and it runs through code 55 turnouts just fine.  The key is making sure the wheels are really in the center of the NMRA notches, or even a tad toward the wide side. 


Mark... you said:

Are your engine riding up on the point rail that is pressed against the main rail?

Always at that point rail...

In that case, although you should check your loco wheel gauge, I don't think that is the problem.  Narrow wheels would cause the OPPOSITE wheel to pick the point rail that is hanging out.  It would not make the wheel ride up the rail that is pressed against the main rail.

Take some close-up photos of this darn turn-out.  I bet the end of that point rail is just too blunt and is sticking out, causing the wheels to ride up on it.

[C855B]

... The key is making sure the wheels are really in the center of the NMRA notches, or even a tad toward the wide side. ...

Agreed! Now... I need to know how to spread the drivers on the FEF without damage and without messing up the quartering. I had it apart 15 minutes ago and got just far enough to realize I either didn't know the trick and/or have the right tools. It's back on the rails and runs fine, but since I couldn't adjust anything it still dives into the frogs.

[chuck geiger]

My cure on last layout on ATLAS C-55 fouling points:

https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQYkw6tmAOh-uHhoyk2e3upMMjcupNps67rT2rpzeem6meiKOwU

Going Peco route next build. Or maybe not - Hello Fast Tracks on line 5.

http://cs.trains.com/mrr/f/11/t/201211.aspx

[strummer]

My 0-6-0 only has .045" wide driver treads, and it runs through code 55 turnouts just fine.  The key is making sure the wheels are really in the center of the NMRA notches, or even a tad toward the wide side. 


Mark... you said:
In that case, although you should check your loco wheel gauge, I don't think that is the problem.  Narrow wheels would cause the OPPOSITE wheel to pick the point rail that is hanging out.  It would not make the wheel ride up the rail that is pressed against the main rail.

Take some close-up photos of this darn turn-out.  I bet the end of that point rail is just too blunt and is sticking out, causing the wheels to ride up on it.

I will try.

In the meantime, I took apart (again) a Kato/Atlas RS3 I had been working on; when I made the switch to the "55" track, I noticed this engine made kind of a "clicking" sound, wheels hitting the spike heads. As it turns out, both of the TTs were gone, causing the wheels to ride a bit low, causing that noise. I had the trucks apart yesterday to replace those wheels with non-TT equipped axles, and thought I had checked the gauge carefully. However one was still a little tight, so I brought it into the proper gauge and WOW! This loco now sails through the turnouts in either direction, without so much as a hiccup! So the problem has been with my locos after all, as you all surmised. 

I guess that's good, in that I think that dealing with the wheels will be easier than fudging with those damn turnouts. Lucky for me I don't have a huge fleet...

Now, for the big question: I now understand how those Kato/Atlas trucks are constructed, and can deal with them. How different (if at all) are my "regular" Kato and Chinese-built Atlas trucks assembled? Anything I should look out for?

My thanks to everyone who has helped me so far...

Mark in Oregon

[mmagliaro]

Mark,
When a problem engine goes through the turnout, have you been able to actually watch the wheels on the side that is supposed to ride through the open rail?  (the point rail OPPOSITE the one you think it is riding up on).

Make sure that THAT wheel isn't riding up on that rail, and therefore lifting the whole engine, and letting the wheel you HAVE been watching go up onto its rail.  The fact that you fixed on engine by widening the wheel gauge really makes me think that it's not the point rail that's against the main rail that is the problem.  I don't see how widening the gauge could help the enging not ride up there.

It's easy to think it's one side if you aren't watching the other side.

[strummer]

...sh*t...and here I thought I had it figured out. 

Mark in Oregon

[peteski]

Now, for the big question: I now understand how those Kato/Atlas trucks are constructed, and can deal with them. How different (if at all) are my "regular" Kato and Chinese-built Atlas trucks assembled? Anything I should look out for?

All the low-friction trucks using pointy axle ends (from Kato, Atlas and others) use a similar construction. Single plastic piece for the axle tube with integral gear, and wheels with half-axles.  The gauge is easily adjustable simply by pulling the wheels out.  Some modelers adjust the gauge even without taking the truck apart. They simply simple insert a knife blade behind the wheels and twist it slightly to move the wheels out.  I prefer  to take the the trucks apart and move the wheels out equally on both sides of the axle tube (to keep the gear in its intended location).  I actually install washers I made from styrene behind each wheel to make sure the wheels will not move inwards and get out of gauge again.

[strummer]

Thanks Peteski.

I think I would prefer to do it "your" way...

Is the basic construction of those trucks much different from the trucks on the older locos Kato made for Atlas? Those are pretty straight forward, and not that difficult to take down and re-assemble...

Mark in Oregon

[peteski]

Thanks Peteski.

I think I would prefer to do it "your" way...

Is the basic construction of those trucks much different from the trucks on the older locos Kato made for Atlas? Those are pretty straight forward, and not that difficult to take down and re-assemble...

Mark in Oregon

The newer low-friction tucks are IMO not any more difficult to take apart or to put back together.  Except for the new Kato trucks with the integral worm. Those are a bitch to work with. But Kato only seems to have used those on few models (then went back to the older design).