Programming a decoder

[peteski]

I ordered my speakers from here:
http://www.sbs4dcc.com/tutorialstipstricks/sugarcubespeakernotes.html

Even though there is a nice big 1.1" round speaker the On30 guys say the sugar cubes are much better. Some even mount 2 in an isobaric camber 

Yeah, those are good.  And yes, the rectangular "sugar-cube" type of speakers are better then the older conventional round-cone speaker. I think it is because the sugar-cubes use stronger magnets and have a very softly suspended "cone"  which is more efficient in producing sound than the older round speakers with stiff cone suspension.

[jdcolombo]

I ordered a 11x15 and a 13x18 speaker.  This is O scale    But they come with the little box.

I could make a 3D part that fits down into the circle and holds the speaker. Just wanted to know which way to mount it.

Use the 13x18 if you have room for it; it sounds significantly better than the 11x15.  Also, if you didn't get the "double deep" enclosure, ask Bryan Vianco (the guy who owns Streamlined Backshop) to send you one.  If you have enough height in the tender to use the double-deep enclosure, you'll get a lot better sound over the standard enclosure.  Tell Bryan that John Colombo told you to ask for a double-deep; I buy a ton of stuff from Bryan, and he can afford to send you a new enclosure (if you have room for it)!

John C.

[DKS]

Chris, have you gone mad?

[Chris333]

Not yet, but I'm only going back and forth on a piece of flextrack.

[DKS]

Not yet, but I'm only going back and forth on a piece of flextrack.

Well, that says a lot right there.

[peteski]

Yeah, Chris has flipped his lid: from being a DCC-phob, he jumped right into the most complex facet of DCC - sound!
 

[Chris333]

Lets be clear. I still don't like DCC, but I am hoping to customize the sound enough that I'll tolerate it. 

I did wish the controller had a round knob instead of the endless wheel and buttons.

[peteski]

Lets be clear. I still don't like DCC, but I am hoping to customize the sound enough that I'll tolerate it. 

I did wish the controller had a round knob instead of the endless wheel and buttons.

Sure, NCE has those too: https://www.ncedcc.com/online-store/Throttles-and-Cabs-c10026259%3Fsort%3Dnormal



But I think it is an encoder knob (not a standard pot).
BTW, NCE has one of the most awkwardly designed websites I have ever seen.    But  I like the Power Cab!

Digitrax makes a utility throttle with the old-fasioned potentiometer.   But it only works with their system.

[narrowminded]

This is how it starts.  First it's a chuff.  Then two............

[Cajonpassfan]

But I think it is an encoder knob (not a standard pot).
BTW, NCE has one of the most awkwardly designed websites I have ever seen.    But  I like the Power Cab!

Digitrax makes a utility throttle with the old-fasioned potentiometer.   But it only works with their system.

Not true, NCE has engineer cabs available with both encoders and pots (for guys whe can't let go of the rheostat

Chris, it took me a while to get used to the NCE "wheel", but now I actually prefer it when running steam. I put in a lot of momentum and the "wheel" allows me to open up the throttle and then back off like you would on the real thing as the engine slowly picks up speed. You get some wonderful sound effects this way. Shutting down the throttle than allows the loco to coast (your car doesn't stop when you take your foot off the gas, right?) the chuff diminishes and brakes are used to slow down and stop. This can be great fun with little practice, although it's probably more so emulating mainline steam rather than a little teakettle. All I'm saying is give the wheel a chance....
We'll get you hooked yet...
Otto K.

[Chris333]

OK I got my speakers. Hardly any sound till you put the box against it.

I 3D'ed the whole inner tender on Sketchup and it all fits, but trying to make a speaker box leaves a lot of little spaces that will probably end up filled with wax from Shapeways.

The tender shell screws to the frame with 2 screws in opposite corners. The top of the tender was a generic coal load lump. But I made a new top that is flat and now has the 2 sanding boxes that Bachmann skipped. Along with a water fill hatch.

So I can glue the top to the tender shell and seal it off air tight.

***
What if I mount the speaker facing down in the well and seal any openings around it. Now when I screw the tender down it will be the "box" and the decoder and keep alive will be inside the box. This would let the box be as big as possible.

Will this work?

I know from car audio that you just need to seal the front from the back of the speaker. I once mounted two 18" sub woofers in a 1983 Honda Civic. The speakers needed 5 cubic feet space each. No "box" would ever fit. So I made a baffle board against the rear seat to mount the speakers to and seal the inside of the car from the trunk. I sprayed rubber undercoating on all the metal inside the trunk and sealed any holes. The trunk was the box.

***
All this so far is using the 13x18 speaker. If the above doesn't sound like it would work I can try the 11x15 speaker instead.

[Chris333]

Here is the 13x18 sitting down in the well:


And here is the tender on the left. Original coal load on the right and what should have been there (I made) in the center:

[jdcolombo]

OK I got my speakers. Hardly any sound till you put the box against it.

I 3D'ed the whole inner tender on Sketchup and it all fits, but trying to make a speaker box leaves a lot of little spaces that will probably end up filled with wax from Shapeways.

The tender shell screws to the frame with 2 screws in opposite corners. The top of the tender was a generic coal load lump. But I made a new top that is flat and now has the 2 sanding boxes that Bachmann skipped. Along with a water fill hatch.

So I can glue the top to the tender shell and seal it off air tight.

***
What if I mount the speaker facing down in the well and seal any openings around it. Now when I screw the tender down it will be the "box" and the decoder and keep alive will be inside the box. This would let the box be as big as possible.

Will this work?

I know from car audio that you just need to seal the front from the back of the speaker. I once mounted two 18" sub woofers in a 1983 Honda Civic. The speakers needed 5 cubic feet space each. No "box" would ever fit. So I made a baffle board against the rear seat to mount the speakers to and seal the inside of the car from the trunk. I sprayed rubber undercoating on all the metal inside the trunk and sealed any holes. The trunk was the box.

***
All this so far is using the 13x18 speaker. If the above doesn't sound like it would work I can try the 11x15 speaker instead.

Hi Chris.

I've never had good results from trying to use the tender shell as a speaker enclosure.  The reasons include too much air leakage and (believe it or not) too much air space.  A proper enclosure is air tight, and also isn't too big, so that the air in the enclosure acts as a "spring" to help the speaker cone excursion and damp that excursion.  But it looks like you have plenty of room to make your own enclosure.  Here's a link to how I do this, complete with photos:

https://www.therailwire.net/forum/index.php?topic=31311.0

For the 13x18, I'd make the enclosure sides 8mm wide out of .030 styrene, with an .030 styrene base (or use 1mm lead sheet, which would add some weight to the tender and help with electrical pickup).  Once you subtract the speaker itself, this enclosure would give you a bit over 1 cubic mm in internal volume, which is about optimal for the 13 x 18.  If height is an issue, you could get excellent results with enclosure sides that are 6mm wide, instead of 8mm, but 8 would be better.  Then I'd mount the whole thing with the speaker facing up, and as Rick B. said, seal off the holes in the tender floor.  I know this sounds counter-intuitive (maybe "crazy" would be a better word), but trust us - it really, really does work.

John C.

[Cajonpassfan]

John, you didn't mean one cubic mm, right?
Otto

[Chris333]

So the standard box that came with the speaker is the correct amount of space?  I thought you recommended getting the bigger box so I was just trying to make my own bigger box.