Programming a decoder

[Chris333]

Reading the manual page 61.   Step 10: Floobydust   

F11 Train brake.
By now you've no doubt discovered that function F11 can be used to turn Tsunami's brake squeal sound on and off.

No all F11 does is keeps my locomotive from moving. If I press it while the loco is moving I do get a brake squeal sound and the loco stops. But according to the manual I need to program a bunch of crap for it to do this. I didn't do that.

The manual says nothing about how to get the squeal when I slow down the loco. I do not want to press F11 to stop the train. I don't want to look down at the controller at all while running a train. I want to watch the train. Plus just to use F11 I have to hold the shift button down. So one cannot simply press F11.

[woodone]

Didn't come with a manual and it is a 77 page PDF. I'm not office max, ain't nobody got time for that. Plus the manual is full of words I'd have to look up like "address" and "consist". Ec

And from what I've looked at on the manual it only tells you what each CV number is, but doesn't tell you what each one does. Some of them are self expository and some aren't.

Iam not Office Max either, but I have four or five manuals printed for several brands of decoders.
They are dog eared and have stickey notes on them- plus hand written notes.
I can’t recall a lot of CV’s but I can sure look them up when I get into a bind.
I don’t understand all that there is written either-read more than once and don’t catch on- a friendly call to the manufacture will solve the problem- but you had better be ready for ( DID YOU READ THE MANUAL) has the first question from the support person. Ain’t nobody got time for that?  I did, and for more than one decoder.
Others have found the time too.9

[Chris333]

Yeah reading the manual is just putting me deeper into a hole. Not to mention simple things like to print page 61 of the manual I have to actually print page 64.

[peteski]

Reading the manual page 61.   Step 10: Floobydust   
No all F11 does is keeps my locomotive from moving. If I press it while the loco is moving I do get a brake squeal sound and the loco stops. But according to the manual I need to program a bunch of crap for it to do this. I didn't do that.

The manual says nothing about how to get the squeal when I slow down the loco. I do not want to press F11 to stop the train. I don't want to look down at the controller at all while running a train. I want to watch the train. Plus just to use F11 I have to hold the shift button down. So one cannot simply press F11.

Chris, basic DCC setup is easy (simple decoders and 2-wire connection from the DCC system to the track). Just motor and headlight control. Even a non-computer litterate old fogy can do it.  But sound tacks on another layer of complicated customizable settings.  Doing it manually by figuring otu the CVS and programming them one-by-one is a pain, but doable. If someone wants to get seriosuly into sound then the best way is to use dedicated programmer hardware and software.

As far as being able to activate all 28 functions from a throttle, I don't think there is any DCC throttle which actually has F0 - F28 as discrete keys.  But you can remap the functions you will use most often to the F0-F9 keys so they are only single button-press away.  But again, ,that means tweaking the CV values ini the decoder.

I don't have much experience with Tsunami but in most sound decoders the brake squeal plays automatically when the loco is slowing down (but it only starts when the loco's speed is fairly low).  So for example, if you are running at speed step 20 (of 28) and you keep reducing speed, the squeal will not play until you go below speed step 7. This is just an arbitrary example - it might be slightly different for you.

You say that F11 is a brake sound - but maybe it is also a brake for the loco (and that is why it stops regardless of the speed step dialed on the throttle)?

Maybe this is a good analogy:  non-sound DCC is as simple as changing spark plugs on a '60s car engine. DCC with sound is like installing a hoppin' hydraulic system for a low-rider.  Almost anybody can change spark plugs with some minimum amount of instructions, but building hydraulic suspension for the first time (and with no formal or informal education or reading manuals) it is very difficult to do (I would say even impossible).  Baby steps. If you rally want to dive  directly into DCC sound (without getting your feet wet for a while on non-sound DCC, it will take some time and frustration, RTFM, and asking questions.

[carlso]

I had to learn the hard way regarding RTFM, too. My 1st install 13 ? years ago was a sound unit and it went well. So I knew all about it,right. Heck no, I am having hell with my Lokprogrammer and a new GS-4 and ESU FT sound file. Actually can't seem to understand the ESU manuals. They are not quite as poor as Digitrax manuals but damned close. That, as others have said, is ESU's lacking.

I am not a newbie at the install as I checked my JMRI roster and I have done 55 non-sound install in mostly my old KATO and ATLAS/KATO locomotives. I just could not let those wonderful, smooth, strong pulling locos go to waste.  Having done that many I used a lot of DZ126T's, Zimos, and ESU's, whatever was the least expensive at the time. I have used the Lokprogrammer to do my FEF 844, AC-9, plus 4 diesel units.

I think Pete's comments above are "right on" for anybody thinking about DCC.

As always, have fun,
Carl

[peteski]

I think Pete's comments above are "right on" for anybody thinking about DCC.

Thanks!
That was specifically done for Chris - not only he is a shade-tree mechanic, he used to install hydraulic suspension in cars. 

Actually configuring all the nuances of some sound decoders is even more complicated than installing hydraulic suspensions (suspensions at least are something you can touch and visualize, and most of the hydraulic lines are logically routed). Some decoder manuals and the CVs in the decoders don't make much logical sense to an average human. 

[jdcolombo]

Yeah reading the manual is just putting me deeper into a hole. Not to mention simple things like to print page 61 of the manual I have to actually print page 64.

Hi Chris.

If you tell me what exactly you are trying to do, I might be able to help.

First, let's change the behavior of F11.  What happened is that someone programmed F11 to turn on an actual brake (e.g., it stops the locomotive) along with the brake sound.  To disable this, program CV61 with a value of zero.

OK.  Now you want to be able to turn on the brake sound with a function key that doesn't require a shift key.  Fine.  For this, you will need to consult the Function Key Mapping table, which is on page 24 of the manual.  This table lists each function key, and their default values for setting them to enable a certain sound or other operation.  Note that F11 is programmed by setting its "control CV" (the second column of the table) to a certain value.  By default, it is set to a value of 64, which enables the brake sound (and if there is a positive value in CV61, it will also operate an actual brake).  If you look at the headings across the columns at the top of the table, you will see a column headed "BRK" - that's the brake sound.  If you want to assign this sound to a different function key, follow this column down past the black area until you see numbers.  These rows (the rows that have numbers in the BRK column) are the function keys that you can assign to the BRK sound.  For the TSU-750, this is F7-F12.  F8 is the sound on/off button (MUTE), so you probably don't want to change this.  But F9 is the "water stop" sound; if you can do without this, you can make F9 activate the brake sound by programming its control CV (look at the second column of the table - the control CV for F9 is CV43) with a value of 128.  If you are willing to give up the "light dimming" action on F7, you can program F7 to activate the brake sound by programming its control CV with 128 (the control CV for F7 is CV41). 

You can also enable an "automatic" brake squeal that will sound when you slow down the engine by a pre-determined amount.  See page 63 of the manual.  This automatic brake squeal is enabled by programming CV 198 with a value of 8.  Then you adjust the sensitivity (how much of a slowdown will engage the brake squeal sound) by programming CV196 with a value between 3 and 10.  The lower the value, the higher the brake squeal sensitivity - that it, the squeal will come on with smaller reductions in speed.  The larger the value, the larger the speed reduction you'll need to activate the automatic brake sound.  This is one that you would just need to play around with until you get it right for you. 

If there are other things you want to change, do a post with a list of exactly what those things are; I can probably tell you what to do to change them.  I used to use TSU-750's in my steam locos (I have since changed to ESU sound decoders), and I remember a bit about how to program these.

John C.

[Chris333]

Thanks John. I'll try when I  get home.

[Chris333]

Well that worked. 
I set 61 to 0
I set 198 to 8
I set 196 to 2

I printed out page 63 of the manual and really didn't understand it at all.


I'll have more questions when I get a real speaker in it. And that brings me to the sugar cube speaker with it's enclosure. Do I fire the speaker down with the speaker box on top?

This is the space for it:

 

[jdcolombo]

Well that worked. 
I set 61 to 0
I set 198 to 8
I set 196 to 2

I printed out page 63 of the manual and really didn't understand it at all.


I'll have more questions when I get a real speaker in it. And that brings me to the sugar cube speaker with it's enclosure. Do I fire the speaker down with the speaker box on top?

This is the space for it:

I would have the speaker firing up, and use some silicone to "glue" the bottom of the enclosure to the bottom of the tender floor (using silicone allows you to remove the speaker later if you need to do so without damaging the tender floor).  There is plenty of air leakage in a model tender to provide sound egress, and if you point the speaker up, it will give the sound a bit of pleasant reverb as it bounces around the enclosure.

Make sure that the speaker is completely sealed to the enclosure - rather than rely on sticky tape (as some sugar cubes do), use a bead of thick CA cement to glue the speaker to the enclosure.  The speaker itself can face up (in which case you'll have to drill a hole in the enclosure for the wires to exit, and you will need to seal up that hole, too) or the speaker can face down into the enclosure with the wiring contacts on top.  I'd probably use the "face down" mounting in your case, given the existing wiring, which you could then solder directly to the speaker terminals.

John C.

[Lemosteam]

@Chris333 , I still offer these enclosures and there is a link to his speaker that may fit in your loco:

[RBrodzinsky]

Along with what John C  said, I would also cut a styrene disc to cover all the holes in the tender's floor. Let the tender enclosure enhance the sound.

[Chris333]

@Chris333 , I still offer these enclosures and there is a link to his speaker that may fit in your loco:

I ordered a 11x15 and a 13x18 speaker.  This is O scale    But they come with the little box.

I could make a 3D part that fits down into the circle and holds the speaker. Just wanted to know which way to mount it.

[peteski]

Do you have a link th the specific speakers you bought?  Also, since you have plenty of room, make the sealed speaker enclosure large for best sound quality.  Enclosure size is one of the sound-quality limiting factors in N scale.  But here you have penty of room for large enclosure.

While I agree that for the best sound experience the speaker should be facing up, I disagree with the statement that it will be ok with it firing inside the closed tender shell.  There won't be much reverb there either.  While the lower frequencies will not be affected by the speaker being inside the tender shell, the higher frequencies like steam hiss (which is a big part of a  steam loco's sound experience) will be attenuated.  After all, you don't see any commercially made devices with speakers (portable radios, alarm clocks) with the speaker being buried inside the case. Speakers are behind a grille which allows sound waves to pass freely.

What I like to do is to drill dozens of very small holes in the tender's coal load (between the molded coal chunks). Basically I'm creating a "speaker grille". Then mount the speaker in an enclosure facing up, behind that "grille".  But it looks like your model doesn't have a coal load in the tender, so you can't just drill bunch of holes.  In this example it might make more sense to have the speaker firing down through the existing grille.  Since you will have the speaker mounted in an enclosure, I would say try it both ways. Have it face inside the tender cavity or face the track and see which sounds better.

[Chris333]

I ordered my speakers from here:
http://www.sbs4dcc.com/tutorialstipstricks/sugarcubespeakernotes.html

Even though there is a nice big 1.1" round speaker the On30 guys say the sugar cubes are much better. Some even mount 2 in an isobaric camber 

I know it is O scale, but I have to put the decoder and keep alive cap above the speaker and keep it all in the water tank/tender. Before I bought the decoder and cap I made foam mock-ups to make sure they fit. If I can design a larger speaker box I will.