how many sound decoders required in an A -B-A set

[cgw]

I picked up a Kato Milwaukee Fp7 train set.     I plan to install esu lok sound in these units.      The question of the day is....... should one do one A unit, both A units  or all three units A-B-A.         If I put two A units with sound and a lok nano in the B unit will the B unit play nice with the full throttle features?.     If I put more that one decoder in the consist the plan is the phase them ever so slightly so that one can hear more that one engine.     
 
Now for some specific Milwaukee RR lighting practices.  The upper headlight is a mars light, the lower light is a head light.  Did the Milwaukee have a Red light in the mars light housing for reverse moves?   Or was the housing just a dual beam white light unit?    Looked at a lot of pictures but I could not make out the details of mars light unit.       

When the engines were consisted together did they illuminate all the number boards or was it just the lead egine?   

Thanks in advance. 

[Jbub]

I've always wanted an ABBBA set of warbonnets all with sound. Having a ABA set of PA/PB's where the A's have sound makes me thing every other loco would be good enough for sound. I don't think I would hear the difference with them being so close together.

Jbub

[RBrodzinsky]

You don’t need sound in the B unit, just the As. If you want the sound of three motors, you could put an E unit file into one of the As.

Use a LokPilot V4 Micro, not a Nano. That will allow you to program in a start delay, to match the sound units.

[Paradise275]

It depends on where you are running the locos. If it's for your home layout then two should do. If it's to run at a show where there is a lot of noise and you want your locos to attract attention and be heard, then all three. You can always mute one or two using F8 but the advantage of doing all three is that each loco has the same decoder so they're easier to speed match.
I know the experts will tell me I'm wrong but that is my novice opinion LOL.

Rick

[RBrodzinsky]

The LokPilot and LokSound have the exact same motor control, so speed matching is dead simple.

As for N-scale sound at shows, depending on the environment, you may not even be able to hear 5. But, your point is valid, for shows, the more the merrier

[lyled1117]

The pilot decoders have not had 'full-throttle' implemented in them. This feature is in the sound decoders but not the pilots so far. You won't be able to 'consist' pilot and full-throttle sound decoders if you want to use the full-throttle feature. You will need to use sound decoders in all the units to have the feature in all units. ESU may implement it in the pilot decoders in the future of course. I had asked them about this about a year ago, they said it might happen.

The red light if present is almost always an emergency light, not a rear end (reverse move) indication. It can be triggered by the engineer any time he feels it is necessary, but it usually was triggered by emergency braking. In a perfect world one would almost never see this red light lit. I have seen a photo of it lit on a GN f-unit doing a station stop on a track where passengers had to cross a 2nd track to reach the station platform so there can be non-emergency uses. Those do seem to be rare tho'.

Lyle

[reinhardtjh]

The pilot decoders have not had 'full-throttle' implemented in them. This feature is in the sound decoders but not the pilots so far. You won't be able to 'consist' pilot and full-throttle sound decoders if you want to use the full-throttle feature. You will need to use sound decoders in all the units to have the feature in all units. ESU may implement it in the pilot decoders in the future of course. I had asked them about this about a year ago, they said it might happen.

Not so.  Firmware for the LokPilot V4 containing FUll Throttle features has been available since the LokProgrammer 4.5.3 release of Jun 2017.  The firmware implements the Drive Hold feature so that the LokPilot decoder will act like a LokSound decoder with Full Throttle.  This will not work with a LokPilot Nano nor a LokPilot Standard as neither has enough program memory for the FUll Throttle features.

See the Software downloads page http://www.esu.eu/en/downloads/software/lokprogrammer/

[lyled1117]

Not so.  Firmware for the LokPilot V4 containing FUll Throttle features has been available since the LokProgrammer 4.5.3 release of Jun 2017.  The firmware implements the Drive Hold feature so that the LokPilot decoder will act like a LokSound decoder with Full Throttle.  This will not work with a LokPilot Nano nor a LokPilot Standard as neither has enough program memory for the FUll Throttle features.

See the Software downloads page http://www.esu.eu/en/downloads/software/lokprogrammer/

Thanks John. I knew it was coming, should have confirmed my information. It's logical it was going to be implemented. Last time I talked to ESU personnel on this (last spring?) it hadn't been.

Lyle

[woodone]

I just installed a LokSound decoder into an A unit with a LokPilot Nano STD. In the B unit. The Pilot has a start delay you can set to match the LokSound. You have set CV 128 in the pilot to do that then you have to remap function 8 to turn on. I am having problems BIG TIME.  With the pilot on with the start delay there is NO DECERATON! When you stop the A B units the B stops before the A. The A unit keeps running spinning it’s wheels. Turn off the start delay in the B and this turns off the sound in the A. Then they work fine together but don’t start together, because start delay is off.
Any good ideas?

[RBrodzinsky]

I just installed a LokSound decoder into an A unit with a LokPilot Nano STD. In the B unit. The Pilot has a start delay you can set to match the LokSound. You have set CV 128 in the pilot to do that then you have to remap function 8 to turn on. I am having problems BIG TIME.  With the pilot on with the start delay there is NO DECERATON! When you stop the A B units the B stops before the A. The A unit keeps running spinning it’s wheels. Turn off the start delay in the B and this turns off the sound in the A. Then they work fine together but don’t start together, because start delay is off.
Any good ideas?

(Assume you mean "no deceleration").  So, the delay works on the startup, but kills the deceleration mode?  What about the acceleration, do they start and accelerate the same? What if you put a really large deceleration value in (just to see if deceleration is really turned off, or just acting weird)? 

I don't have a Nano std installed into anything to test/validate, but this sounds like a firmware error. You should let Matt Henry know.

[woodone]

(Assume you mean "no deceleration").  So, the delay works on the startup, but kills the deceleration mode?  What about the acceleration, do they start and accelerate the same? What if you put a really large deceleration value in (just to see if deceleration is really turned off, or just acting weird)? 

I don't have a Nano std installed into anything to test/validate, but this sounds like a firmware error. You should let Matt Henry know.

Yes, that is what happens! hard to explain. With the sound decoder F-8 will start or stop sound ( I may have reversed F-8 in the sound unit.)
By turning on F-8, sound starts and also set the Pilot to the delay on start. But that kills the deceleration on the Pilot.
I am using the LokSound programmer and it is a bit confusing has there are more ways to program than I understand. But I have put in a large value in CV4 (up to 150) and still the B unit has no deceleration with the start delay on.
I am going to try reversing the F-8 in the sound decoder to see if that cures the problem.
So far Matt has not been able to help and has not spent too much time in doing so I must add.

[woodone]

I may have hijacked this thread- and sure don't want to do that.
So maybe the mod can move my post into a NEW DCC item.
I have more to add but don't want to expand here on this post.

[woodone]

Back to OP. I have always done just the A units in an A B B A set. The two A's will give you very good sound and you will not have doubled your cost.

[cgw]

hey wooden,  you are not really hijacking this thread.    I for one have learned a lot from this.  Based on the feedback i have gotten the plan is to  put lock sound micro's in the A units and a Pilot micro in the b unit.       I am very interested on what you find out in programming your set up.    it will help me a ton.     Hopefully soon i will have some pictures soon on what I have done so far.. 

[cgw]

whoops meant to type woodone      autocorrect flips it to wooden     sorry about that its too early in the morning here.