Shapeways Heavyweight Streamlined Roofs

[nscalbitz]

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Thank you, but I'm not sure what you are asking for? Your model looks great I think. What would you need to finish it? My knowledge does not go much beyond the PRR.

Sorry I had two separate issues that are now confused.
1- I was referring to your Shapeways offerings- where I could upgrade RR/ Lima etc. if I knew more about the roof hardware parts (or could discern from full res photos).

2- The D&RGW Prospector- model is not mine but a commercial O-Scale and the only one I've seen commercially produced.
Point is the O-B cars cover all those aspects that are exhibited; skirts/ roof/ large windows. Actually there were two iterations, the first is in the black/ gothic scheme. When that scheme was quickly superceded in '51, later smaller windows replaced those seen (along with a chair 'rearrangement' i think).
Thus I wasn't seeking parts for this type, merely jumping aboard Charlie et al conversation about betterment cars. Of which many roads I believe made similar adaptations.
thanks dave

[CBQ Fan]

Are these needed for MT Coaches too, or just the ones you specified? Do you know what the dimension to the top of the roof is? Should I match that to and existing smoothside car?  I have some old atlas smoothside cars.

I would take a coach rooftop as well. I don’t have any measurements of the prototype. Maybe someone else has them. I will check my Burlington Bulletin to see if they list any dimensions of the conversion. Let me see what kind of details I can come up with. 

[Lemosteam]

I don't know what the OP intended, but would think that a modernized heavyweight (balloon, arch, Harriman of standard) would keep its structure and still be about 6" taller than newer lightweight cars. A lot of new sheet metal over old ribs. Am I missing something?
Otto K.

Maybe, but I think that some roads ripped all that off when upgrading the cars rather than scrapping the car so the roof line matched newer passenger equipment as far as end and side view profile was concerned.  The PRR did this to many P70 cars.

The arched roofs are primarily what you described WRT using the older structure, no?

[Lemosteam]

I would take a coach rooftop as well. I don’t have any measurements of the prototype. Maybe someone else has them. I will check my Burlington Bulletin to see if they list any dimensions of the conversion. Let me see what kind of details I can come up with.

I think we can pull this off as a semi-foob as there will be no way for me to fill in the end profiles as in your pictures, but if that satisfies your need.

[Lemosteam]

Sorry I had two separate issues that are now confused.
1- I was referring to your Shapeways offerings- where I could upgrade RR/ Lima etc. if I knew more about the roof hardware parts (or could discern from full res photos).

2- The D&RGW Prospector- model is not mine but a commercial O-Scale and the only one I've seen commercially produced.
Point is the O-B cars cover all those aspects that are exhibited; skirts/ roof/ large windows. Actually there were two iterations, the first is in the black/ gothic scheme. When that scheme was quickly superceded in '51, later smaller windows replaced those seen (along with a chair 'rearrangement' i think).
Thus I wasn't seeking parts for this type, merely jumping aboard Charlie et al conversation about betterment cars. Of which many roads I believe made similar adaptations.
thanks dave

1: From the Lima coach perspective I am lucky in that I know that the model is a PRR P70 prototype, and I have many books and photographic resources available. to get close enough for N Scale.  I have no idea what other roads it comes close enough to.

2: Weren't the O-B roofs primarily Harriman style? (Don't slap me for not knowing- I am in no way a passenger car expert).  Those are a different animal altogether, unique in and of themselves, not betterment, not old fashioned (Clerestory/Arch).

Where is @jmlaboda .  maybe he can give is a short primer on roof styles, their purposes and when they started to disappear.

[thomasjmdavis]

Maybe, but I think that some roads ripped all that off when upgrading the cars rather than scrapping the car so the roof line matched newer passenger equipment as far as end and side view profile was concerned.  The PRR did this to many P70 cars.

The arched roofs are primarily what you described WRT using the older structure, no?

Definitely not a one size fits all situation.

I think the answer is that most roads did these modernizations in their own shops, and what happened varied from road to road, and  sometimes from 1 car to another.  L&N 2551 series had new sides with skirts, but kept the clerestory roof.  NC&StL rebuilt old parlor cars into HW coaches and then rebuilt them again into the City of Memphis- visually a steamlined train with 6 wheel trucks, except it has a heavyweight underframe and 6 wheel trucks.  ACL rebuilt coaches with new sides, roofs wrapped over the old clerestory (ie- 14' tall +), and flat ends with full width diaphragms.  C&EI interchanged cars with each of them on various "Dixie" trains and build several different styles.  Along with several other "betterment" or "streamstyled" designs on other roads.

This might be a situation where it would make sense for several small manufacturers to get together to produce "kits" - or at least coordinate so that car sides, roof and ends, truck side frames are all available for a particular prototype. Or, maybe an arched roof (of the tall variety as over the old clerestory frame) could be done in resin or similar material that can be cut to length, and include several ends of different configuration.

I could use roof/end designs for Erie, GTW and ACL (the last 2 being visually similar).

All I really want is a better option than "do it myself" ala this version of an Erie roof that I did with a modified Rivarossi coach about 15 years ago.  Realized shooting the photo that I never did get the yellow stripes on.
 

In my own defense, I think all I had to work from were online photos and the diagram... http://www.rr-fallenflags.org/el/pax/d1.gif

[Lemosteam]

So if we stick to a modeling reference, I.e. What is not what could be, because I don't see myself ever getting into developing etched sides.

What I would consider, now that my offerings have expanded somewhat noting my recent Harriman roofs, is developing various styles for models already in existence, like the MT, Atlas/Rivarossi/ConCor, lLima/MP, because I already have all of those interfaces designed, so all I have to do is chop the roof and model a different style, until all of the car styles are complete (with the exception of the roofs already available on the car or aftermarket.

These Betterment roofs are the ones that I have not modeled. Is this a reasonable list below?
-streamline shape with taper and flat ends overhanging the angled HW corners (Erie example)
-streamline shape with no taper and flat ends overhanging the angled HW corners
-streamline shape with no taper and angled ends to match the HW ends

Specifically for the OP, @CBQ Fan , I think the second listing fits your bill right?

Any additional? This whole thread has shown me all of the variations but I am struggling to determine what is needed.

I will design them to have a 0.25mm side overhang in case some other brave soul wishes to etch their own or provide etched sides for folks to consume.

Will that work?  Timeline will be at my covenvenience as filler time?

[CBQ Fan]

So if we stick to a modeling reference, I.e. What is not what could be, because I don't see myself ever getting into developing etched sides.

What I would consider, now that my offerings have expanded somewhat noting my recent Harriman roofs, is developing various styles for models already in existence, like the MT, Atlas/Rivarossi/ConCor, lLima/MP, because I already have all of those interfaces designed, so all I have to do is chop the roof and model a different style, until all of the car styles are complete (with the exception of the roofs already available on the car or aftermarket.

These Betterment roofs are the ones that I have not modeled. Is this a reasonable list below?
-streamline shape with taper and flat ends overhanging the angled HW corners (Erie example)
-streamline shape with no taper and flat ends overhanging the angled HW corners
-streamline shape with no taper and angled ends to match the HW ends

Specifically for the OP, @CBQ Fan , I think the second listing fits your bill right?

Any additional? This whole thread has shown me all of the variations but I am struggling to determine what is needed.

I will design them to have a 0.25mm side overhang in case some other brave soul wishes to etch their own or provide etched sides for folks to consume.

Will that work?  Timeline will be at my covenvenience as filler time?

@Lemosteam   You are correct. I think that would fill the bill!

[Lemosteam]

All, I will post progress in the form of product announcements.

[RRRover]

Here's that I'm looking for. UP modernized several HW cars.

http://www.northeast.railfan.net/images/up500.jpg

[CBQ Fan]

Here's that I'm looking for. UP modernized several HW cars.

http://www.northeast.railfan.net/images/up500.jpg

I could make that work to.

[Lemosteam]

@RRRover , That is very similar to the Erie car above which will follow after @CBQ Fan 's roofs and his will be designed to fit the MT heavyweights.

If anyone is using Atlas/Rivarossi/Concor heavyweights, don't forget I have steps with snap in coupler pockets for MT1015's.

[ncbqguy]

The CB&Q "Betterment" cars had modified end top edges  that had a conventional streamlined profile.  What would be nice would be a set of ends, sides (with the skirts) and a roof for Zephyr Tower (and Rocket, Missouri and Denver Tower).  The C&S / FW&D Range and Crest cars IIRC were also rebuilds and would require new sides as well.
If any 3D guy would like to tackle this I could make up 2D drawings for the cars...
Charlie Vlk

[Lemosteam]

The CB&Q "Betterment" cars had modified end top edges  that had a conventional streamlined profile.  What would be nice would be a set of ends, sides (with the skirts) and a roof for Zephyr Tower (and Rocket, Missouri and Denver Tower).  The C&S / FW&D Range and Crest cars IIRC were also rebuilds and would require new sides as well.
If any 3D guy would like to tackle this I could make up 2D drawings for the cars...
Charlie Vlk

@ncbqguy , Can you share a picture?  I am trying to understand the terminology you are using.  Did I already describe what you are referring to 7 posts back or is that a fourth type to design?

The etching biz is too expensive for me to enter.  I'll already be developing the roofs to fit existing heavyweights, and I will not be designing a full core or car

Still don't understand what if anything was done on the ends of the cars.  Some explanation would help there too.

[CBQ Fan]

The CB&Q "Betterment" cars had modified end top edges  that had a conventional streamlined profile.  What would be nice would be a set of ends, sides (with the skirts) and a roof for Zephyr Tower (and Rocket, Missouri and Denver Tower).  The C&S / FW&D Range and Crest cars IIRC were also rebuilds and would require new sides as well.
If any 3D guy would like to tackle this I could make up 2D drawings for the cars...
Charlie Vlk

Drawings would be awesome Charlie.