Author Topic: Help - ESU LokSound Gyralight and Function Remapping  (Read 4228 times)

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cbroughton67

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Help - ESU LokSound Gyralight and Function Remapping
« on: July 10, 2017, 10:26:54 PM »
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I've installed an ESU LokSound Micro decoder in a Kato SD40-2. That was fun... not... :-)  I've added an LED on the AUX1 (F1) function and programmed it as a Gyralight. So far, so good. Now, I want it to operate with the F0f function - if the headlight is on, the Gyralight is on. If I'm reading the documentation correctly, the sequence I'm following is this: CV31=16, CV32=2, CV330=5 (1 (headlight) + 4 (AUX1)). This should (if I'm reading it correctly) map F1 to the F0f function. No love. I've tried setting CV330=4 to see if F0 would activate the Gyralight (F1), but again, no love. If I press F1, the Gyralight works like a champ. If I press F0, the headlight works like a champ. I just can't get the Gyralight to activate with the headlight (F0). I've tried both Page mode programming and Ops mode. I'm using a Digitrax DCS100 with DB150 boosters.


Help. Me.  :?


Thanks in advance,
Chris

Chris Broughton
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Darwin was an optimist.

tehachapifan

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Re: Help - ESU LokSound Gyralight and Function Remapping
« Reply #1 on: July 10, 2017, 11:05:31 PM »
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I got this to work on my GP9 install, but F6 was (by default) set up activate the AUX1 output which I programmed as a gyralight. Did you remap AUX1 to activate with F1 and not F6? At any rate, I can't see any correlation of CV330 with any of this, which per the manual is the CV for F3. I can't remember which way I linked the two, but I believe you need to enter 5 in either CV266 (FO) or in CV298 (if it indeed activates with F1). As you've noted, CV32 needs to be set to 2 first.

jdcolombo

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Re: Help - ESU LokSound Gyralight and Function Remapping
« Reply #2 on: July 10, 2017, 11:13:09 PM »
+2
I've installed an ESU LokSound Micro decoder in a Kato SD40-2. That was fun... not... :-)  I've added an LED on the AUX1 (F1) function and programmed it as a Gyralight. So far, so good. Now, I want it to operate with the F0f function - if the headlight is on, the Gyralight is on. If I'm reading the documentation correctly, the sequence I'm following is this: CV31=16, CV32=2, CV330=5 (1 (headlight) + 4 (AUX1)). This should (if I'm reading it correctly) map F1 to the F0f function. No love. I've tried setting CV330=4 to see if F0 would activate the Gyralight (F1), but again, no love. If I press F1, the Gyralight works like a champ. If I press F0, the headlight works like a champ. I just can't get the Gyralight to activate with the headlight (F0). I've tried both Page mode programming and Ops mode. I'm using a Digitrax DCS100 with DB150 boosters.


Help. Me.  :?

Thanks in advance,
Chris

Hi Chris.

I think you are programming the wrong control CV (350).  You want to program CV266, which is the control CV for setting the physical outputs for F0 Forward. 

So try this.  CV 31=16; CV32=2; CV266=5

I don't know where you got CV350; the LokSound Select manual shows CV350 as the control CV for setting the sound function attached to F4.  That's often assigned to the Dynamic Brake in a diesel sound file.  So I think you may have changed the sound for F4 instead of changing the Gyralight F-key assignment.

Anyway, try CV266 and see if that works for you.

John C.

lyled1117

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Re: Help - ESU LokSound Gyralight and Function Remapping
« Reply #3 on: July 10, 2017, 11:53:27 PM »
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I agree with John. The CVs he has shown will do what you want.  As an FYI you can download and use the Loksound programmer software without the programmer. It can be used to see in English what you are wanting to do and tell you what CVs have changed to do so.

Lyle


This is what the software indicates to do what you describe:

CV31 = 16, CV32 = 2
----------------------
CV266 =   5
« Last Edit: July 10, 2017, 11:57:41 PM by lyled1117 »

jdcolombo

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Re: Help - ESU LokSound Gyralight and Function Remapping
« Reply #4 on: July 11, 2017, 09:52:56 AM »
+7
By the way, changing the value for CV266 as indicated will not alter the behavior of F1 - that is, it will still turn on the gyralight independently.  To change THAT, you will need to reprogram CV298, which is the physical output control CV for F1 (set it to zero, and it won't turn on anything).

Mastering the reprogramming of the function keys for a LokSound Select or V.4 sound decoder is complicated, but there is a logic to it that makes things straightforward once you understand it.  First, you have to quit thinking about lighting outputs as "functions".  I know that's how we've referred to them for years, and still the way most manufacturers refer to them (e.g., function outputs).  But in ESU's world, you have function KEYS (e.g., F0, F1, F2, etc).  Instead of thinking of the wires as "function outputs," think of them simply as physical outputs (or in my case, I think of them as "output wires.").  ESU calls the output wires the "headlight," the "backup light" and then "Aux 1," "Aux2" etc.  A four-function decoder from ESU has the headlight wire (white); the backup light wire (yellow); the Aux1 wire (green) and the Aux2 wire (purple).  You can tell a function KEY (e.g., F1) to turn on or turn off any of these outputs when pressed by programming the corresponding physical output CV (e.g., CV266, for F0 Forward).  You can also assign sounds to the function keys as well as logic control.  For example, you can use the logic functions to set up F2 for "grade crossing" behavior, so that when you blow the horn, the bell comes on and the ditch lights start flashing for a pre-determined amount of time.

The flexibility for programming the function KEYS on a LokSound is almost unlimited, but to take advantage of it, you have to sort of re-orient your thinking.  For each function key, you need to think "What physical output wire do I want on or off?"; "Do I want to add any logic functions - like, do this only when the engine is stopped, or in reverse, or going forward, or only if another function key is on at the same time?"; and "Do I want any sounds to happen when I press this key?"  Once you answer these questions, then you can program the appropriate control CV's to make it happen (the control CV's are all listed in the LokSound manual; I use the V.4 manual, because it is more up to date than the Select manual and the two decoders are identical when it comes to these things).

Once you get used to this approach, it kind of all falls into place logically.  But it's different from the way most of us are conditioned to think about "functions."

John C.

peteski

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Re: Help - ESU LokSound Gyralight and Function Remapping
« Reply #5 on: July 11, 2017, 04:05:05 PM »
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That is an excellent explanation John - if I could I  woudl give you more than one up-vote!  :)
You would make a great teacher.
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jdcolombo

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Re: Help - ESU LokSound Gyralight and Function Remapping
« Reply #6 on: July 11, 2017, 04:42:40 PM »
+1

You would make a great teacher.

Hi Peteski.

That comment made my day - because in fact teaching is what I do.  I'm a [now partly retired] professor at the University of Illinois.

https://law.illinois.edu/faculty-research/faculty-profiles/john-d-colombo/

John C.

peteski

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Re: Help - ESU LokSound Gyralight and Function Remapping
« Reply #7 on: July 11, 2017, 05:43:02 PM »
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Hi Peteski.

That comment made my day - because in fact teaching is what I do.  I'm a [now partly retired] professor at the University of Illinois.

https://law.illinois.edu/faculty-research/faculty-profiles/john-d-colombo/

John C.

That's funny!  A partially retired tax low professor during the day, and an electronic hobbyist and a model train guy at night.   :ashat:  Very impressive resume John!  Now I know whom to PM with my tax related questions.  :D

Just like with every profession out there, there are mediocre, average, and  also excellent educators. IMO, you fit into the excellent category (at least judging by what I  see you do on this forum).  :)
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MK

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Re: Help - ESU LokSound Gyralight and Function Remapping
« Reply #8 on: July 11, 2017, 05:57:47 PM »
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+1000!

Very impressive background there John and I always read every one of your posts.  Your writing style is very elegant and easy to read and understand!

tehachapifan

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Re: Help - ESU LokSound Gyralight and Function Remapping
« Reply #9 on: July 11, 2017, 08:13:11 PM »
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I'm also pretty sure that John has some sort of system rigged up so that he gets an alert when someone posts. Hardly ever beat him with a reply, although let the record show I DID FINALLY BEAT HIM on this thread (with the same initial info to boot)! :trollface: :trollface: ;)

A any rate, Chris, did this work?
« Last Edit: July 11, 2017, 08:24:16 PM by tehachapifan »

cbroughton67

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Re: Help - ESU LokSound Gyralight and Function Remapping
« Reply #10 on: July 15, 2017, 09:49:40 PM »
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By the way, changing the value for CV266 as indicated will not alter the behavior of F1 - that is, it will still turn on the gyralight independently.  To change THAT, you will need to reprogram CV298, which is the physical output control CV for F1 (set it to zero, and it won't turn on anything).

Mastering the reprogramming of the function keys for a LokSound Select or V.4 sound decoder is complicated, but there is a logic to it that makes things straightforward once you understand it.  First, you have to quit thinking about lighting outputs as "functions".  I know that's how we've referred to them for years, and still the way most manufacturers refer to them (e.g., function outputs).  But in ESU's world, you have function KEYS (e.g., F0, F1, F2, etc).  Instead of thinking of the wires as "function outputs," think of them simply as physical outputs (or in my case, I think of them as "output wires.").  ESU calls the output wires the "headlight," the "backup light" and then "Aux 1," "Aux2" etc.  A four-function decoder from ESU has the headlight wire (white); the backup light wire (yellow); the Aux1 wire (green) and the Aux2 wire (purple).  You can tell a function KEY (e.g., F1) to turn on or turn off any of these outputs when pressed by programming the corresponding physical output CV (e.g., CV266, for F0 Forward).  You can also assign sounds to the function keys as well as logic control.  For example, you can use the logic functions to set up F2 for "grade crossing" behavior, so that when you blow the horn, the bell comes on and the ditch lights start flashing for a pre-determined amount of time.

The flexibility for programming the function KEYS on a LokSound is almost unlimited, but to take advantage of it, you have to sort of re-orient your thinking.  For each function key, you need to think "What physical output wire do I want on or off?"; "Do I want to add any logic functions - like, do this only when the engine is stopped, or in reverse, or going forward, or only if another function key is on at the same time?"; and "Do I want any sounds to happen when I press this key?"  Once you answer these questions, then you can program the appropriate control CV's to make it happen (the control CV's are all listed in the LokSound manual; I use the V.4 manual, because it is more up to date than the Select manual and the two decoders are identical when it comes to these things).

Once you get used to this approach, it kind of all falls into place logically.  But it's different from the way most of us are conditioned to think about "functions."

John C.


Hello All,


I just returned from a much needed vacation today, so I'm finally getting to respond to everyone. Thank you for the help! @jdcolombo - your explanation was crystal clear, and the CV's you suggested were spot-on. The Gyralight and headlight now work together on F0f. Your explanation will help me make additional tweaks going forward. The CV I was using was 330, not 350 - not that it matters, since it was still the wrong one. It makes sense, now, though.


@tehachapifan - worked like a champ.  :)


Thanks to all who responded! I hope I can return the favor someday!


Chris

« Last Edit: July 15, 2017, 11:51:34 PM by cbroughton67 »
Chris Broughton
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Darwin was an optimist.

Santa Fe Guy

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Re: Help - ESU LokSound Gyralight and Function Remapping
« Reply #11 on: July 16, 2017, 09:24:23 PM »
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Great outcome Chris.
Rod.
Santafesd40.blogspot.com

jagged ben

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Re: Help - ESU LokSound Gyralight and Function Remapping
« Reply #12 on: July 16, 2017, 10:43:51 PM »
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Mastering the reprogramming of the function keys for a LokSound Select or V.4 sound decoder is complicated, but there is a logic to it that makes things straightforward once you understand it.  First, you have to quit thinking about lighting outputs as "functions".  I know that's how we've referred to them for years, and still the way most manufacturers refer to them (e.g., function outputs).  But in ESU's world, you have function KEYS (e.g., F0, F1, F2, etc).  Instead of thinking of the wires as "function outputs," think of them simply as physical outputs (or in my case, I think of them as "output wires.").  ESU calls the output wires the "headlight," the "backup light" and then "Aux 1," "Aux2" etc.  A four-function decoder from ESU has the headlight wire (white); the backup light wire (yellow); the Aux1 wire (green) and the Aux2 wire (purple).  You can tell a function KEY (e.g., F1) to turn on or turn off any of these outputs when pressed by programming the corresponding physical output CV (e.g., CV266, for F0 Forward).  You can also assign sounds to the function keys as well as logic control.  For example, you can use the logic functions to set up F2 for "grade crossing" behavior, so that when you blow the horn, the bell comes on and the ditch lights start flashing for a pre-determined amount of time.

It would be nice if all manufacturers got better at using unambiguous language:

'To map function key 1 to the green wire, program CVs as follows..."
'The white wire is the headlight by default, but can be mapped to other function keys by following these instructions...'
Etc.

Same goes for Decoder Pro files.

jdcolombo

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Re: Help - ESU LokSound Gyralight and Function Remapping
« Reply #13 on: July 17, 2017, 08:46:00 AM »
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It would be nice if all manufacturers got better at using unambiguous language:

'To map function key 1 to the green wire, program CVs as follows..."
'The white wire is the headlight by default, but can be mapped to other function keys by following these instructions...'
Etc.

Same goes for Decoder Pro files.

I've been a strong supporter of this approach since . . . forever.  If each manufacturer would write a manual as a "how to" instead of trying to show off their technology or writing for someone who knows how to program in machine language (not many; even the guys and gals at Microsoft and Apple use C for programming), things would be better.

But I actually think part of the problem is the concept of function mapping.   I don't know how "function mapping" took hold as a concept, but if we began to think of this as simply function key programming it would make much more sense.  In other words, don't ask "how do I remap the headlight to F3".  Instead, ask "How do I program F3 to turn on the headlight?"  The analogy that works for me is reprogramming keys on a computer keyboard to insert different characters.  Every operating system has a way to do this - assigning special characters or even macros to single keystrokes.  This is what we are trying to do with our function keys: program them to do certain things.

So I'd like to see a manual that has a section headed "Function Key Programming" that then uses a bunch of common examples (e.g., "How to make the headlight stay on in both directions"; "How to get ditch lights to alternate"; "how to program and assign a rotary beacon to a function key"; etc.) as examples of "programming" function keys, not "remapping" - sometimes there is no map!

John C.
« Last Edit: July 17, 2017, 09:51:41 AM by jdcolombo »

MK

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Re: Help - ESU LokSound Gyralight and Function Remapping
« Reply #14 on: July 17, 2017, 09:31:59 PM »
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Good idea John.

What about getting a bunch of people together and setting up a Wiki page to match your concept?  Maybe a section for each of the major DCC players like Digitrax, NCE, TCS, ESU, etc.?

As more and more people contribute we can then have a cook book on the various things we want to do.  But it must be in your style of "What do I need to set to do this?" instead of a regurgitation of the manual.