Pan Am Railways IM SD40-2 PULLED!!!

[central.vermont]

Just heard from someone that Intermountain has been told by Pan Am Railways to stop selling anything PAR, B&M or MEC until they get licensing to do so. Apparently the second release in the PAR scheme has been pulled from sale. Has anyone else heard this anywhere?

Jon

[jagged ben]

All I can say is I'm pretty sure I saw them on the website at some point and now they are gone. 

[Mark5]

Is Pan Am taking a chapter from when UP was doing it's "Be Specific, Make Your Checks Payable To Union Pacific" playbook?

UP eventually backed off from most of that nonsense. If it's a simple matter of filling out a form then I guess that's all IM has to do, but this is all speculation at this point (I guess!)

Mark

[peteski]

Is Pan Am taking a chapter from when UP was doing it's "Be Specific, Make Your Checks Payable To Union Pacific" playbook?

UP eventually backed off from most of that nonsense. If it's a simple matter of filling out a form then I guess that's all IM has to do, but this is all speculation at this point (I guess!)

Mark

But doesn't the license also cost a lot of money, which is why manufacturers didn't want to get the UP license?

[nkalanaga]

The original UP license plan was rather expensive, if my memory is right.

[garethashenden]

When did Union Pacific start licensing models? 2006 or so? CSX jumped on board soon after, so it's only reasonable for Guilford to get in on the action now. 11 years late is exactly their timeframe.

[nuno81291]

  come on Mellon and Fink.... as a guilford modeler the lack of available power may lead to a line abandonment... guess I should get better at paint and decals if this is the new M.O.   

[C855B]

The original UP license plan was rather expensive, if my memory is right.

It was. MTH had the resources to pay lawyers to challenge the original program and especially the fees. They prevailed, and everybody benefited.

FWIW, the legal term for logos and paint schemes is "trade dress".

Some may recall the dust-up a few years back about the Albuquerque commuter system ("Rail Runner") demanding a huge ransom from model companies because some corporate image consultant told them there were tens or even hundreds of thousands of dollars to be made. IIRC somebody finally stepped-up and schooled them that it amounted to pennies, and the bad press was going to cost them more, anyway.

If true... I think we need confirmation... I would wonder if the same consultant might be at work with PanAm. It's a small-potatoes outfit, so I could fully envision somebody giving them some starry-eyed sales pitch about the mountain of money that would roll in from model railroaders.

[coosvalley]

PAR SD-40s still available at MBK, get em while you can!

Does licensing apply to decals too?..Do UP decals have to be licensed?...MFR's could just give the models a blue dip, and decals could be used.....Just a thought..

[drgw0579]

Presumably anything using the logo would be subject to licencing, just like brown. This may be a different situation than most railroads because the Guilford probably paid a bit of money to obtain the trademark from the remains of the airline.

This site is interesting:  http://panambrands.com/  Also read
 http://www.trainorders.com/discussion/read.php?2,2568210

Did Timothy Mellon work for the airline in a previous life?

[JoeD]

But doesn't the license also cost a lot of money, which is why manufacturers didn't want to get the UP license?

UP only requires you register and do not obscure or deface the logo of it and its fallen flags.  Some others require a minimum amount for the year...other roads are starting to do the same.
Joe

[MK]

The original UP license plan was rather expensive, if my memory is right.

Yes but I think when the dust cleared and the few clearer heads at UP prevailed, the license cost was free or nominal (i.e., a penny for the principle).

[C855B]

... others require a minimum amount for the year...other roads are starting to do the same.

Yes... and those minimums can be the gotcha. Be thinking GM's and FCA's licensing of vehicle replicas, where the minimums make commercial models of their cars financially impossible given the small quantities corresponding to N scale demand.

PanAm was all about the iconic name and logo in the first place, so, if true, it's probably mostly a matter of somebody noticing there was a shadow trade in the image. This is why it does hurt to ask sometimes. They may not otherwise have any reason to know.

Does licensing apply to decals too?..Do UP decals have to be licensed?...

Yes. See this thread for a similar discussion.

[jpwisc]

Regardless of liscensing, the Pan Am SD40-2s were some of the worst sellers for Kato, I don't know why IM would chase that road. No one wants excess inventory sitting around. That's not good business.

[C855B]

Regardless of liscensing, the Pan Am SD40-2s were some of the worst sellers for Kato, I don't know why IM would chase that road. No one wants excess inventory sitting around. That's not good business.

This, too. IM is well-known for dropping offered paint schemes if pre-orders are lacking, so I still feel the "licensing" assertion needs to be verified.