New Bachmann passenger cars up on MBK

[Cajonpassfan]

Likewise....
otherwise this is a complete bust from Bachmann for me (the baggage looks as if the steps could be modified to suit the ATSF version)...and that lettering?!....
Bruce

Well, at least the baggage cars are available undec and Santa Fe lettering is as easy as it gets (or one could easily remove and redo the ridiculous "Santa Fe"). My frustration is that this wants to be a 1942-built 3432-3452 class Budd, a car we *really* need for post-war era modeling, and it falls short in many ways, and some things, like the fluting, are virtually impossible to correct. I might yet get one and fuss with it, but the pricing?! Ouch. I'm willing to pay this for a top quality model, but this doesn't appear to be one...
Otto K.

[Cajonpassfan]

"and that lettering?!...."

I was going to mention that too, but wasn't sure if what I was looking at was an actual photo or something photoshopped.  It looks like the same oversized font used when they made the big domes 40 years ago.

Exactly, I had the same reaction. I don't think they ever looked at a photo of the real thing
Otto

[wcfn100]

 Bachmann.

Jason

[peteski]

Bachmann.

Jason

Looks like they have again lived up down to their reputation.

[wm3798]

Note that the line is offered as their "Silver" series, which is not typically their high-end stuff.  I would agree though that the level of proto fidelity (apparently a complete afterthought) and detail (windows, ends, paint) would be more marketable somewhere well south of $20 per unit.

I suspect you're paying for the lighting and the trucks, and the carbody is targeted at the audience that shows up to see an N trak rig at mall once a year.  Enough to garner some oohs and aaahs, but not much more modeling scrutiny than that.

I predict they sell well enough, but will eventually be on the clearance shelf for pennies on the dollar.

Lee

[Ed Kapuscinski]

This reminds me: I seriously don't see the logic behind tooling up models that aren't actually models of anything these days.

It's not like it costs THAT much more to get the right roof with the right sides. In fact, you'd think it'd be even easier since someone wouldn't have to get creative and come up with the new combinations.

Get it right, or even closer, and you expand your market for almost no more investment.

I can understand some wrong details, where it's easier to use a stock part, or a stock part of a drawing, or where you don't want to go back to the factory to fix a small issue, but simply assembling stuff out of thin air seems to make so little sense in this day and age of easy access to information.

Same thing with decoration too. It's one thing to slap PRR or Santa Fe on something just to move more units, but if you're going to do the work to generate the artwork, why not go off of some actual photos and at least get it close? Again, it's not like you can't just Google this stuff anymore.

Is there something missing?

[MRLX1020]

Ed's right - if they would have made a PRR Congressional trainset, that would have been remarkable, and beat everyone else to the punch.  Sure, they could offer those cars in other roads (PC and Amtrak for starters) and still yet added other car types to the mix.

I will also be waiting for the pennies on the dollar sale...

Justin
MRLX1020

[thomasjmdavis]

To add insult to injury, Walthers has the Con Cor twin window chair car on sale today (in CB&Q lettering, but that part can be fixed) for substantially less than the cost of the Bachmann car.

On the baggage car, I am tempted to buy one to see if M&R or USP sides will fit, so if and when they do go on sale bigtime, I know whether I can use them as cores.

On the obs, well, I can't think of why I would need one.  An issue I have is that every set I buy comes with one, but very few of the trains I model actually had one- so I have too many already.  Off the top of my head guess would be that IF I did want to model a boat tail Budd obs, the old Kato obs would be a much better core to start with. 

Of course, serious modelers are not their target demographic for this product.  They are looking for mass market "train set on the dining table" customers who want a "streamliner" and have no idea the Kato products exist.

[Bobster]

Greetings,

Has anyone found out if the roof on the observation is re-moveable yet?   The price is high for a foob, but a Rock Island LaMirada is not likely to be made any other way but by kit bashing this.   A project for the future. 

Bobster

[nickelplate759]

Union Station Products sells sides for La Mirada.
http://unionstationproducts.com/_4127a_1.html
It would be a project and a half, but could yield a really nice car.

You could also start from the Rivarossi  corrugated observation - you'd have to fill a few windows on each side, and make the windows in the tail taller.   Of course, the fluting isn't quite right on this car either, but it would be closer.     Or, maybe put the Union Station sides on the Rivarossi car?

Geeorge

[thomasjmdavis]

Or, maybe put the Union Station sides on the Rivarossi car?

I would check the length.  I was hoping to use some of the Rivarossi coaches as cores, but they were a little short- essentially an 80 foot car, rather than 85. If the RI Obs is an 85' car, maybe the Kato Super Chief obs would be a better core if you can get a deal on an auction or find a reject with shipping damage.

[nickelplate759]

Well, the Rivarossi observation is based on Pullman plan 4127, and should be about the right length for La Mirada, which was plan 7127a.  It's definitely longer than the coaches, which were based on a shorter prototype (plan 7435, I believe).

George

[arbomambo]

Something I've known about some companies who design and manufacture in China...
Some of them, toy and model companies, use different design teams along with different factories to produce their entire inventory...resulting in some real varied results.
 A good example is a company that produces plastic model kits- Trumpeter. They have many design teams, and use more than one factory to produce their injection molded kits. It is apparent that they uee an 'A' team of designers, and 'B' and even 'C' teams...
Because of this, Trumpeter releases some kits that are just about state of the art, while other kits are much less so...yet, even among the state of the art kits, one will find a glaring error...sometimes in a detail part, but also sometimes in a major outline shape.
No doubt this is a result of doi g business in a foreign country, with a huge language barrier, where work is parcelled out to various 'cottage-style' factories...it is very common for a great set of dimensional drawings to be interpreted incorrectly in 3d form, especially when the subject is foreign and the design team has no real-life example to reference.
 Bachmann strikes me as using this manufacturing model...different design teams and various factories...with much varied results.

[thomasjmdavis]

Well, the Rivarossi observation is based on Pullman plan 4127, and should be about the right length for La Mirada, which was plan 7127a.  It's definitely longer than the coaches, which were based on a shorter prototype (plan 7435, I believe).

I stand corrected, at least on the Kato v Rivarossi (I ran that as a Santa Fe "Vista" until the Kato Super Chief came out, since it is close)

Note: measurements below are not real precise, because my replacement digital caliper is in the mail for the last week- turns out that dropping one onto a concrete floor can be fatal- I reserve the right to edit if it shows up later today.

I should have started with "I am not an expert on the RI" and was making an assumption on length. 

At any rate, the Rivarossi obs measures 6 1/4 inches, or 83' 4", from the center of its little tiny dummy rear coupler (which I had somehow missed being there all these years)  to the front end, not including the full width diaphragm cast on the end.  I can't say for Rock Island, but this is within an inch (easily margin of error in N scale given I am using an "analogue" measuring device) of right on for the 1938 Chief and Super Chief obs on the ATSF

for comparison
The Kato ATSF PS Obs measures only a 1/32 (5") longer- 83' 9" which is right on according to the drawings in the Sleeping car book [edit- right on for the postwar Vista obs]
Kato CB&Q Budd obs (from the early Budd sets) is 6 9/16 inches or 87'6"

So conclusions-
Nickleplate is right, the Riv obs probably is the best choice for a core for the RI car, unless the sides are specifically designed to fit something else.
I am going to repaint and find some new wheels for the one I have, and letter it for one of the "Chief" cars or perhaps "Vista Plains"- the refurbished car that was the "spare" for the Super Chief in 1947.

Anyway, apologies for all.  You would think by this point in life, I would have learned to actually measure before opening my mouth, or keyboard.

[Bobster]

Good afternoon,

The Rock Island cars Golden Vista and Golden Divan are the cars Rivarossi attempted to model.  For the era they came close.  Above the windows the upper fluting isn't quite right.   The Rivarossi interior, though sparse, is very close to what Pullman did with these two.

Near sister LaMirada was the same inside for the front 2/3 of its length.  The back 1/3 lounge-parlor area of the first  two cars was upgraded for  LaMirada as it was supposed to be part of the Golden Rocket consist.  But Southern Pacific backed out.  La Mirada had curved lounge chairs and  a different seating and table arrangement.  The pictures look pretty luxurious by Rock Island standards.   Bachmann totally blew the roof by putting a Budd roof on and above window fluting is incorrect also.  I haven't seen the interior, hence my earlier question does the roof come off the Bachmann car.

All 3 cars are supposed to be 85 feet when coupled together.  There is supposed to be an antenna running along the rooftop too, which both Rivarossi and Bachmann left off.   I don't have the brass car sides or references for the Santa Fe cars but I do have the Pullman Standard Library Volume 8 for the Rock Island and three Rivarossi Observation cars.  One named Navajo which I know is wrong.  When I finally find someone willing to sell a Kato Super Chief observation car the Rivarossi will replace one of the other cars on a RI Rocket, which is in rough shape.  Or if the roof fits one of the cars will give up its roof for the eventual fitting on the Bachmann car.

Gotta run for a couple hours,
Bobster

PS I have access to radius gauges and ball nose end mills so a fix is not impossible for the Rivarossi or Bachmann cars.