PRR B74b build from an MT Horse car

[reinhardtjh]

The MT PRR dining car trucks would be right for these cars but my question is whether or not they are available separately from the models?  These trucks, as well as the top equalized trucks used on the DL&W baggage car model, should both be very popular trucks to have available (the former because of PRR modelers while the latter could be attractive to those more inclined to being prototypically accurate, a huge number of Pullman sleepers and parlors used this type of truck)... I know I would like some of the latter for some of my cars!!!

They are.  I've bought a ton of them.  MTL #1189 - PRR Heavyweight Diner Truck without Couplers
  At MBK - http://www.modeltrainstuff.com/Micro-Trains-N-1189-PRR-Diner-Truck-p/mtl-00302205.htm

[towl1996]

No matter how rare the car, I'm a buyer and I'll support any manufacturer releasing quality PRR equipment, especially from one like @Lemosteam, who has produced more PRR goodness than I ever imagined to see. Why would I not support the hobby and an effort like that?

[Cajonpassfan]

When it comes to my Pennsy stuff I usually prefer to model the everyday mundane...that which you were more likely to see (my HH-1 not withstanding!).  They're neat cars, though, don't get me wrong.

I totally get that TPM, I too focus on the everyday mundane stuff. Too many one-offs do dilute the substance.
At least on Cajon though, horse cars were an everyday mundane occurrence for a time, predominantly in non-horse headend service. Unfortunately, I need UP and Atsf cars, and got two eSpee-ish cars instead
Still, nice to see the variety produced in N scale...
Otto K.

[arbomambo]

in Santa Fe service...across the entire system, Horse express cars were a common sight in head end service; they certainly weren't odd, rare, or 'one off' cars...
the same with the SP, NYC, and PRR cars...in fact, after horses ceased to be the main commodity transported by these cars, they were used as baggage-express cars, and were seen across all these roads systems as part of regular head end consists...PRR even had the ex-theatre cars to augment the horse-express cars in their head-end consists.
These were normal cars in head end baggage-express service; that is why they are SOOOoooo welcome to be seen produced in N scale now.
 just as the PRR R50b 'milk reefers'...they were originally built as express milk cars, but, eventually came to be used in regular express service...in fact, it's hard NOT to see a PRR train, with head end cars, without an R50b in the consist somewhere...
and they were regularly seen in Santa Fe head end consists too...
Bruce

[thomasjmdavis]

OK, anybody have a photo of a B74b mixed up with ATSF horse cars on a Grand Canyon or Fast Mail?  I'm looking for an excuse....

[jmlaboda]

OK, anybody have a photo of a B74b mixed up with ATSF horse cars on a Grand Canyon or Fast Mail?  I'm looking for an excuse....

Skimming through consists posted at the Passenger Train Consists List at Yahoo! Groups I am surprised by what I did find out about the Grand Canyon and Fast Mail consists and I can tell you that you probably would have an easier time finding hens teeth than you would finding anything PRR on either of these trains.  Except for the extremely rare Express X29 boxcar (which could have and often did, show up in use on nearly every named train on the east coast) PRR cars simply do not show up in use on either train.  While horse cars dotted the consists all were ATSF and the only foreign head-end cars showing up were New York Central, and that often in numbers (more than one car) in a given consist.  Really rather surprised about this.

What I have learned over the years about the PRR horse cars is that quite often cars were assigned to specific tracks within the service area of the PRR, with cars quite often carrying the track's name on the car so as to help identify their assignment.  While changes were made from time to time, for the most part these cars remained in these assignments for years on end and very little off-line movements were made by these cars, largely because of these assignments.  I suspect that if I had sufficient numbers of consists for other roads that had dedicated horse cars that I would find the same to be true about them as well... that they largely stayed on their owner's rails (with only few exceptions such as PRR/ACL or PRR/SAL operations may have occurred because of the importance of these trough train runs) and generally assigned to specific tracks as a general rule.

It was asked about one ATSF car, that is at a museum, being painted up with a track's name on its sides for a movie but there doesn't seem to be any documentation of ATSF doing this... only PRR so far has been found to have lettered their cars for a specific track... something PRR horse car modelers need to keep in mind.  (For anyone interested I can dig through my files to see if I can find track assignments, so modelers can get these car names correct, upon request.  Just PM or email me.)

Oh... in regards to the GC I was surprised to see very little head-end equipment mentioned in the consists that were shared from the 60s on that List... really surprised because, like a lot of other folks, the GC was suppose to be a train heavy with such cars... but the consists that are documented have proven otherwise.

[dougnelson]

Skimming through consists posted at the Passenger Train Consists List at Yahoo! Groups I am surprised by what I did find out about the Grand Canyon and Fast Mail consists and I can tell you that you probably would have an easier time finding hens teeth than you would finding anything PRR on either of these trains.  Except for the extremely rare Express X29 boxcar (which could have and often did, show up in use on nearly every named train on the east coast) PRR cars simply do not show up in use on either train.

Jerry- not sure about hens teeth, but accordinding to The Warbonnet (Vol. 3, No.2) issue on The Fast Mail, PRR headend cars, and cars of the NYC and other railroads regularly traveled on Santa Fe Mail and express trains. For PRR cars, this included X29 express box cars, B60b baggage/express cars, R50b express reefers, B70a scenery/express cars, and yes, B74a horse/express cars.

The most common use was for mail and express shipments, but also for regularly scheduled magazines and periodicals. Horse cars were probably the least commonly seen, but racing horses were regularly shipped around the country with the changing seasons.  With all the commerce between California and eastern and Midwest PRR states, the Fast Mail was the logical train to carry much of this traffic.

[thomasjmdavis]

Many of the consists easily available (Fred Frailey's book, now a CD from SFRH&MS, GMBUS, or the atsfrr.com site) show quite a number of "foreign" cars in #7 & 8, also quite a few in #23/24/123/124 and even on the Kansas CIty Chief).  For example:
http://www.atsfrr.com/resources/Internet/Consists/07FstMl-53.htm

There used to be a site on the net specifically dedicated to "foreign cars on the Santa Fe" but it was taken down some years ago (I think over copyright issues with some of the photos or documents- at least, it happened at the time that was going on at several railroad related sites).

With a great deal of traffic from NYC, Philly and other eastern cities going to LA over the ATSF, and then back in the other direction, one can only assume that NYC, PRR, Erie, ATSF, MP, etc were to some extent "pooling" cars via REA in order to service all these routes.

Horse cars followed the racing circuit and horses were being moved from NY to Chicago to LA (not to mention Florida, Churchill Downs, etc) on a relatively regular basis.  So my question was only whether a PRR horse car could be located on ATSF in the west, as opposed to the horse "changing trains" in Chicago. 

[Upstate Gator]

Tom,
Whether we have specific evidence or not, it seems logical that a Pennsy horse car (or other roads) would have been used from the breeders areas out to the southern California race tracks. I have a pdf of that foreign  roads site. I'll see if they were mentioned.

Would Pennsy horse cars have been used as theatre scenery cars? That could provide another reason for them to appear.

Another resource to check would be Ed DeRouin's Moving Mail and Express by Rail book. It doesn't always list road name, but it does list car type, size, and origination.

Maybe there are photos associated with specific races that might show some of the cars
Ben

[arbomambo]

Nope....
PRR head end cars were fixtures on Santa Fe head end heavy trains (Fast Mail...second sections of Grand Canyon...)...B70bs, R50bs, X-29s...
Also NYC, Erie, B&O...these were the main players in interchange on Santa Fe head end trains...but PRR had a big prescence in Santa Fe's Fast Mail...
It's actually tough to find pictures of A Fast Mail consist that DOESN'T have a PRR head end car in the mix.
Bruce

[Lemosteam]

Nice!!!

I wonder if, by cutting out the cast on doors that a more appropriate look could be gained, with the door frame being built up on the inside to not only strengthen the framing but also to provide for a deeper look.  This will be something I will be looking at for some of my head-end cars, once I get serious about doing them.  Also, keep in mind that most heavyweight head-end cars had door frames trimmed in ¼ round placed on both sides of the doorway in a vertical position... Harriman cars are the exception but most had this detail... I just don't know if using Evergreen .030 thick ¼ round pieces would be small enough for this to work appropriately.

The MT PRR dining car trucks would be right for these cars but my question is whether or not they are available separately from the models?  These trucks, as well as the top equalized trucks used on the DL&W baggage car model, should both be very popular trucks to have available (the former because of PRR modelers while the latter could be attractive to those more inclined to being prototypically accurate, a huge number of Pullman sleepers and parlors used this type of truck)... I know I would like some of the latter for some of my cars!!!

First, I realized I did not offer thanks for all the kind words and support.

@jmlaboda , I mulled long and hard on this comment.  And I agree.  One could take the easier route and glue them on like I did in the earlier pics.

Now I think it looks much better like this:

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A steady hand and slow deliberate cuts along the opening gradually get you there, although I want to note that the bottom of the door is below the floor of the car, so care must be taken there.

The OEM glass comes in handy as a backing plate and guise the Windows glazing, but my mistake was gluing that in place before painting the doors.  The glazing could be lower in the car, and another separate piece could be glued in behind the openings afterwards.

Here is another pic that shows the new and I think improved depth of the door:

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[Lemosteam]

Also, the roof is nearly ready in FXD, just have to model the roof vents an add drill dimples to the inside of the roof for proper vent placement.

The kit when ready will be a separate announcement, and thanks for all the interest.

[chicken45]

Nice!

[Lemosteam]

So I spent some time practicing on one side.  Found it is good to have a spiral cutter for the dremel to clean out most of the doors AFTER scribing the original door around the opening:

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Next, shave to the scribe line and scribe the inside of the floor to remove the original door below the floorline.

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Continue to scrape and shave the opening up until the door just fits, but don't force or the door will bend.

After all doors fit, reinstall the floor weight and glue some 3/16 wide styrene strips inside the car trapping the edge of the weight.

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Same picture as above, door losose installed:

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[Cajonpassfan]

Ah, John, that looks so much better! Sorry to put you through all this (not!)
Otto K.