Guys. Seriously, Guys. Fleischmann has impressed the hell out of me again

[jmlaboda]

Built-in function-only decoder. That makes perfect sense.

Now if you could just find such a device for North American equipment that could use the same sort of light controls then you'd have it made!!!

[peteski]

Now if you could just find such a device for North American equipment that could use the same sort of light controls then you'd have it made!!!

Digitrax (and also the Kato version of that decoder) and TCS both make function only decoders.  Other cDCC ompanies probably make them too (but those are the only ones I used in my models).

The TCS ones are FL2 and FL4, I don't recall the Digitrax designations for their.

[delamaize]

Hey guys, sorry it took so long to get back on here, I work nights, and sleep most of the day, as the time of the original post shows. Anyways....

piiiics, please!  this sounds cool!

What John said. Pics or it didn't happen

Video is coming, it's filmed in Potato vision, and I had to edit it with Youtube's editor, but it is coming.

My curiosity meter is well past the halfway point.  Tell me more.

So... you can just plunk this car on a DCC track, push it forward with your hand, and the forward lights pop on?
And if you stop it and push it the other way, the reverse lights come on?
And you're not running anything on analog "channel 0" off your DCC controller?  It's just being powered by
the standing AC from the DCC system that is on the rails?

Yes, if it's DCC or DC, doesn't matter, it function the same. No address. I think I may have figured out how it works, More on that later.....

Yes... I'd like to see that car completely torn apart with photos!  Ha ha.

Wait for the video.....

Exactly - Mike wasn't clear about that so I also asked about those details. With the additional details emerging, the plot thickens.    Maybe Mike just ran the set using address 03 which was the default setting?  Or maybe the set was factory programmed to the actual number printed on the loco and that is what he used?

No Decoder, it's done manually. I think I may have figured it out, I'll post again when the youtube video is done, and do a sketch on how I think the whole thing works.

[jagged ben]

Although, some vendors offer misinformation (that DCC voltage is constant at the track)
http://www.nscaledivision.com/information_on_dcc.htm

RMS voltage is constant for all practical purposes.

[peteski]

RMS voltage is constant for all practical purposes.

LOL, you are kidding, right?  To me it looks like whoever posted the info on that page wouldn't have a slightest idea what RMS even means.

And yes, I know what you mean about RMS, but it is generally accepted by the average model railroader that the DCC track voltage flips polarity many times a second - why would you want to bring RMS into the equation?  Sometimes the easiest explanation is the best.

[jagged ben]

LOL, you are kidding, right?  To me it looks like whoever posted the info on that page wouldn't have a slightest idea what RMS even means.

I'm not kidding in the least.  And you may well be right regarding whoever wrote that page.   But it's a pretty important concept for people switching from DC to DCC to understand that using a DC throttle changes the voltage on the track while using a DCC throttle has no effect on track voltage.   And saying that DCC voltage is constant is a concise way of saying that.   It is not, in my opinion, a misleading statement at allwhatsoever, especially to the lay person. 

Yes, the next step in people's understanding is that it's AC not DC, but how important is that compared to knowing that DCC track tracks are 'hot' all the time?  It's even less important to the average modeler to understand that the AC waveform is a modulated squarewave or whatever it is.     Very few people have the instruments necessary to view the variable waveform of  DCC.   Whereas, all model train guys ought to have a basic multimeter handy.  And if they measure DCC voltage with that?  It's going to look constant, and it should.   If the reading varies that's either a sign there's something wrong, or the meter is too cheap.

So let's just accept that DCC voltage is 'constant' and not get too caught up in poo-pooing layman's terms that make perfectly good common sense.

[strummer]

MIke, relax, you are not the only European model nut here (I have lots of various European-prototype models). 

Please count me among this list as well...

Mark in (soon to be wet) Oregon

[peteski]

So let's just accept that DCC voltage is 'constant' and not get too caught up in poo-pooing layman's terms that make perfectly good common sense.

I guess it is all in the semantics.  I was trying to explain in layman's terms that the DCC control packets do not ride on top of a constant track voltage (constant as in DC), but the constantly flipping track voltage *IS* actually those control packets.

[Leggy]

Well that helped my understanding!

[Chris333]

How long does it take to upload?  We are on the edge of our seats here 

[delamaize]

Video!

Ok, I think I have figured out how it works, the little bronze connections that contact the axles are actually attached to said axles, with enough friction to to move with the wheels, but loose enough for the axle to spin fairly freely. Attached is 2 Potato-vision MS paint diagrams!
[ Guests cannot view attachments ]
[ Guests cannot view attachments ]

[nickelplate759]

That is DANGED clever!

[peteski]

Well that helped my understanding!

I'm glad I was able to do that. 

This is the English version of the Fleischmann web page describing the car (assuming that this is the car Mike has). Pretty pricey BTW!
http://www.fleischmann.de/en/product/229771-8620-0-0-0-0-0-003002/products.html

While it does say that it is DC (Maybe to differentiate it from AC models?), the page does mention:
Digital decoder       Functions decoder
and
The model is equipped with a function decoder for the light changeover (red/white) in analogue as well as digital system.

That to me indicates that its equipped with function decoder (which works in DC and DCC).  No magical German gnomes.    But if Mike shows a video with the wagon sitting on a piece of powered track (either DCC or DC) and shows that the lights change simply by pushing the car forward or backward, I'll be wicked impressed!

[peteski]

Looks like I was composing my previous post as Mike was posting his video and a diagram.  All I can now say is: WOW!  I'm wicked impressed!

But being me, I wonder how reliable this type of contacts will be in a long run (pun intended)?  If the contacts become oxidized, will the lights flicker?

Still, that is a very ingenious design from Fleischmann!  I would love to get into the electrical and mechanical circuit and do a "Peteski technical review of it".  But a hundred Euro is a bit rich for me just to find out how it works.

Thanks for posting this Mike!

Question: In your diagram you show the changeover pickups on one truck, yet you show that both trucks pickup power. I also noticed that each truck seems to have different pickups. Do you know how those both truck's pickups are wired to the circuit board?

[delamaize]

Looks like I was composing my previous post as Mike was posting his video and a diagram.  All I can now say is: WOW!  I'm wicked impressed!

But being me, I wonder how reliable this type of contacts will be in a long run (pun intended)?  If the contacts become oxidized, will the lights flicker?

Still, that is a very ingenious design from Fleischmann!  I would love to get into the electrical and mechanical circuit and do a "Peteski technical review of it".  But a hundred Euro is a bit rich for me just to find out how it works.

Thanks for posting this Mike!

Question: In your diagram you show the changeover pickups on one truck, yet you show that both trucks pickup power. I also noticed that each truck seems to have different pickups. Do you know how those both truck's pickups are wired to the circuit board?

Luckily, I paid about that much for the control cab car and a 2nd class/cafe coach. It seems to pick up power from both trucks, which is transferred to the lighting board by 2 piece metal weight, and contacts on the board. I believe the components in the image I drew are simply for switching between the headlight, and tail light circuit, and don't actually move any electricity to the LEDS, they serve as the directional switch. Remember, what I drew was over-simplified, and MSpaintafied. Also, in the video, one of the little directional rockers is out of place, I caught it after I made the video, and placed it back in the right position. I think by using 2 axles, it has a little bit of a redundancy, and hopefully will minimize connection problems in the future, caused by oxidation.