Tehachapi Loop II

[Smike]

Got it now Ed, I totally love the single theme and making that theme shine concept. Smart design too.

[mark dance]

A very nice rendering!  I like the way you have worked the actual prototype tack layout into the plan and the way the plan flows...very nice. 

Will you be recreating the profiles and grades just as accurately?  If so, is there an opportunity to work pusher pockets or some such function into the top and bottom of the grade? 

I ask because I have found that to hold interest, it can be helpful to have a focus or theme to a layout that presents an on-going challenge.  Modelling the prototype's operations can be as much or more fun as modelling their infrastructure and rolling stock...especially helper ops!  To reliably model helper ops on long trains and prototype grades in N scale would require quite a lot of skill in modelling and maintaining equipment, designing and constructing the track work and roadbed and watchful eyes and delicate throttle control during ops with friends.  The social aspect of two (or 3?!) person teams having to work together to get a long freight up a curving prototype hill is yet another dimension to model railroading...and I am not sure the social aspect of the hobby is well enough recognized.  Of course Loan Wolf operators would likely not be seeking this but I have come to really enjoy the camaraderie of ops sessions.  Your layout could provide many enjoyable hours of this with helper ops!

Just some thoughts as you work through your plans...plan the focus and make up of the ops that will keep you engaged at the same time as the track!

md

[GaryHinshaw]

^Very good points to consider.  The mans know of which he speaks* and he has had a significant influence on my own approach to Tehachapi.  I have really come to appreciate how much fun ops can be - even with a modestly simple concept.  Given the train length you are planning for, it will be a challenge to get each one over the hill successfully; enough so that it could easily hold the interest of two people per train to get the job done.

BTW Ed, have you ever had a chance to visit Mike Danneman's pike?  I would love to have the chance to see it and operate on it some day, but you're close, so you should consider insinuating yourself.   

-gfh

* BTW md, did you mean Lone Wolf or Loan Shark?

[3DTrains]

* BTW md, did you mean Lone Wolf or Loan Shark?

The Loan Wolf is the enforcer.

Cheers!
Marc - Riverside

[Santa Fe Guy]

I totally agree with Mark. Ops sessions and the social side of them is a lot of fun. I have an ops session on my SFRSD on the last Friday of each month and have done for the last 18 years or more on this layout and on my older layouts way back and regularly have 11 guys plus me. The session starts at about 7.30 usually with a time for show and tell then we get into the action. A lot of trains get to move over the RR along with a lot of BS during the night. We break for beans about half way through the night and more stories are told. Then its back into action until about 11.00pm or later. Great fun all round. So if you can plan for operations all the better it is a great way to get a whole lot more pleasure out of your RR.
Rod.

[ednadolski]

The grade is a steady 2.08%  (1/4"  per foot) on the whole visible portion of the layout.   For DPUs the plan is that they will already be in the trains as they enter & exit the staging.  This pretty much mirrors the prototype since the real Loop is more or less in the middle of the line between Bakersfield and Mojave.  (IIRC, in the SP days the manned helpers would be cut in/out at Summit Switch, but BNSF & UP don't use that any more.) 

Being very much a lone wolf type, I haven't really given much thought to running sessions with multiple operators.  My current layout, the 'Little Loop', is too small for more that one operator, and in ~10 years it has not ever emerged for me as a priority.  No doubt I am missing out on a big part of what the hobby has to offer, but then again I've learned that if I over-reach myself it is a pretty sure recipe for never achieving completion.  That being said, I think that this layout can support enough trains to for additional operators, so at least this give me the next logical step to try it out and see how well I can manage it.

Being more of a builder than an operator, one theme that I do want to support is the "layout as a display case for detailed models" idea that was presented in the "Classic Railroads You Can Model" Kalmbach book.  This suggests Tehachapi Loop as an ideal place to show detailed and weathered models in action.  Among other reasons, the models have to move at low speeds, and the Loop will show off both sides of them.   I want to take it a step further, and build the Loop itself as one of the models on display.

I would love to visit Mike Danneman's layout, however I've never had the opportunity and I am not sure how to contact him.  I did have a chance some time back to visit Paul Brennecke's incredible Grand Road layout, and that was one of my earliest and greatest influences for my interest in N scale.


Ed

[ednadolski]

Here are a couple of pics showing the construction of the South Woodford module.  This is a variation of the 'waffle module' technique.  I begin with a section of 1/4" plywood cut out to the desired shape for the module.   In this particular instance the module is over 8' long, so I had to splice on an additional piece to get the needed length  (the remaining modules will not need this).  I then use 1/4" and 3/4" plywood ripped into 3 3/4" wide strips pieces and assembled into a truss-like pattern which provides the structure.  The wider 3/4" plywood strips go on with nails & wood glue, and the 1/4" strips are glued with construction adhesive and glue blocks.   The resulting module base is rigid and lightweight -- this one weighs in at about 19 lbs (without roadbed).

For the subroadbed my original plan was to use 1/4" plywood on top of the WS risers just as on my first Loop.  However I did not have enough 1/4" on hand so I ended up using some of the 3/4" stuff.  The only downside to this is the extra weight (not a major concern, since the base is so light). Note how the ends of the subroadbed have to be supported with vertical risers.

So here is what South Woodford looked like before the track was installed:





And here are some shots showing the underside construction:





And this is what it looks like now, with the track installed (including my detailed #12 turnout) and a UP demo train in place:







Ed

[GaryHinshaw]

It's alive!   

[svedblen]

Looking fine!

Just to be sure about the location - is this at the South Woodford siding?
https://www.google.se/maps/@35.2076298,-118.5482231,3a,75y,349.05h,76.46t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s-uhSKNqwW6VIto0hvMQP6Q!2e0!7i13312!8i6656?hl=sv

[jagged ben]

Looking fine!

Just to be sure about the location - is this at the South Woodford siding?
https://www.google.se/maps/@35.2076298,-118.5482231,3a,75y,349.05h,76.46t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s-uhSKNqwW6VIto0hvMQP6Q!2e0!7i13312!8i6656?hl=sv

Yes.  The switch is just a bit south of there.   

[ednadolski]

Just to be sure about the location - is this at the South Woodford siding?
https://www.google.se/maps/@35.2076298,-118.5482231,3a,75y,349.05h,76.46t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s-uhSKNqwW6VIto0hvMQP6Q!2e0!7i13312!8i6656?hl=sv

Yes that's it.   Here is a couple more views showing the south switch:

http://www.redoveryellow.com/signals/tehachapi/035_West_Woodford_36044.jpg

http://www.somewherewest.com/Tehachapi/WOODBR3.JPG


This location has seen its share of changes in recent times.   These images pre-date the derailment of 2005, but in post-derailment pics you can see that wood ties on the siding have replaced the original concrete ones for a distance of about maybe 100-200 feet or so.   And of course the signals have been updated as well.


Ed

[Mastertech]

ED.. this really is some awesome stuff, Thanks for pointing the way. the only thought that i have is: how is the moisture levels in your area from season to season. I mean expansion and contraction from summer to winter. Paint and seal everything, i noticed the L girder bench work is painted. that's great. My layout is 16 feet and i almost get 1/16 to 1/8 movement. I use a dehumidifier in the summer and it works great, It's just the winter up here in New Jersey are dry as a bone. plus it'll be cool to see the room your building this loop in, finished?

[basementcalling]

Fantastic theory, ideas, and execution.

I am also hoping to  execute helper ops on a nice grade on my layout, but not to the exclusion of everything else like this layout does. I'm not that focused.

[ednadolski]

Hi Peter & thanks for the kind words.  You bring up a great point about keeping focused.  It's sometimes a challenge for me since I have a history of going off on parallel projects such as weathering, detailing, P:48, and such.   I expect to still be doing all those things, but keeping my primary focus on layout-building.  I wouldn't want to go for 6+ month stretches without making some forward progress, so I have to keep the destination in mind

John I grew up in NJ (exit 129 ) so I'm pretty familiar with the east coast humidity (I remember inline hockey indoors in June/July, it was like playing in a sauna!).   Here in Colorado the situation is almost the opposite, which is a big plus for layout construction and stability.  Another key part of that is I am using Baltic Birch plywood which is a better quality and tends to remain stable through environmental changes (within reason, natch).  As you can see in the pics the layout room itself is unfinished, but I have painted the concrete floor (a surprisingly substantial improvement!) and I think I will probably install a drop ceiling.  BTW the benchwork in that pic is temporary, the Woodford module will be in a different part of the room. That space at present is occupied by Tehachapi Loop I which is still operational.  I'm not planning to dismantle that until Loop II has made significant progress.  (Side note, my plan for Loop I is to retire it and store it underneath the main loop peninsula of Loop II, unless I can find someone interested in taking it off my hands.     )
Cheers!

Ed

[ednadolski]

I'm planning how I will be doing the signals and detection, and thought I would just post a couple of links to relevant proto pics to serve as a reference:

http://www.redoveryellow.com/signals/tehachapi/035_West_Woodford_36044.jpg
http://www.redoveryellow.com/signals/tehachapi/033B_West_Walong_29311.jpg
http://www.redoveryellow.com/signals/tehachapi/033A_West_Walong_29308.jpg
http://www.redoveryellow.com/signals/misc/29318_east_walong.jpg
http://www.redoveryellow.com/signals/tehachapi/032_West_Walong_36026.jpg
http://www.redoveryellow.com/signals/misc/28781_signal_near_capitan.jpg

I'm also considering some kind of optical detection for the staging helix, so that I can build an LED panel to monitor the progression of trains.  Putting one photo sensor (CdS cell or phototransistor) every quarter-turn for four staging tracks would take 80 sensors, but with the serial staging on the helix it will be pretty important to always know where everything is in there.

Ed