N scale freight car parts: End / Roof / Underframe Suppliers

[JMaurer1]

One of the reasons I left HO and moved to N was because I was getting caught up in the rivet counting...I love to paint and decal cars, but hated shaving off the grab irons and drilling thousands of holes to replace them. N scale didn't have that (then). I have to agree with what some of the others have already said: there's just not the demand for this. At the same time, for people who want this, there are options that there didn't used to be even just 5-10 years ago.

1st there's 3d printing. If you want something, design it and get it printed. You can even post it on Shapeways website and if others want it, they can buy it as well.

2nd there's casting it. Southern Pacific's first 'overnight' boxcars were outside braced boxcars that had the wood replaced with steel sides (still had the outside bracing, just smooth steel instead of boards under that). I took the boxcar I needed (actually an old Bachmann boxcar for the correct bracing) and made a master and did my own rubber molds to cast the car. Unfortunately, there are no decals for the black car with orange stripes and lettering so that project stalled there until I decide to create the artwork for the decals.

3rd there's shrink casting. You take HO parts and models and make a mold in HO, then when you cast them, you use resin that shrinks to around 1/2 the size. This is what several people are doing to get steam boilers not available in N scale made. I've bought a few and the detail is GREAT. Since HO already has lots of parts, mold them and shrink them to N and you're done.

4th is getting over your fear of cutting up good cars to make new ones. Before they were available, I was making 50' express reefers out of 2 40' reefers and 40' flats out of 50' ones. They don't feel any pain...or at least they don't express it.

So there's options, but I don't see much of a market. People didn't like the Intermountain kits (I did, but most people want RTR cars). I absolutely LOVE the FineNScale models (especially the wavey sheet metal sides of the boxcars) and wish he would make some new cars, but demand (or lack of) has kept him from doing this. Even detail parts for engines haven't done that well. I still mourn for Sunrise Ind. almost every day. How does one model 1950's SP without the 5 light and ash can headlights? I wish you luck but you are looking at a very difficult path here.   

[Kentuckian]

I too have built intermountain kits and have spent probably too much time building one small N scale structure.  But in general, if you want to build railroad models you may want to try a larger scale.  If you want to build a model railroad, stick with N.  I know we all have different goals and that is great, and there are phenomenal models in N scale, but for me an operating layout is the whole point.  Allen McClelland may be the best example of this, and he models in HO.  He modeled a transportation system, not individual models so much.

Given that, RTR freight cars are the norm.  I don't see much of a market outside of Shapeways for specialized freight cars parts.

[SandyEggoJake]

Ok, look   ...  seem all are focusing on the HOW, not the IF.  And all are opining on if OTHERS would buy such, etc.

My question was IF loose sprues of accurate boxcar car ends were available in N - as they are from multiple sources HO (with or without the premolded detail and say molded to work with MTL frames) would YOU buy them?   

My case of MTL hacking reluctance was I simply realized I need not destroy a model with a replacement cost of $14.25 plus tax and shipping, when for $2 I got a new metal frame I needed and added the detail I wanted ... and more importantly, I enjoyed the build.  Plus I saved a donor car for my next project.  I'm just thinking it might be nice to have a similar off the shelf option for boxcar ends.  Then we can get on to what we love - the paint decal & weathering.   

Can I be the only one? 

Agreed we can have different goals.  But I'm no refugee from the HO rivet counters.  Rather a former HO rivet counter now converted to N as I see new technology and improved quality making N possible to have BOTH build great railroad models AND model railroads.

[peteski]

Ok, look   ...  seem all are focusing on the HOW, not the IF.  And all are opining on if OTHERS would buy such, etc.

My question was IF loose sprues of accurate boxcar car ends were available in N - as they are from multiple sources HO (with or without the premolded detail and say molded to work with MTL frames) would YOU buy them?    .

You still don't seem to get it.

There are no spares anywhere.  Manufacturers have been ask for that multiple times.  The Chinese factories producing these models are refusing even to run extra parts/sprues for the manufacturers for spare parts!

Even of manufacturers had extras on their hands for some reason, the extra hassle to make them available as a retail item (assign part numbers, package them and keep inventory on-hand)  is not profitable.

The only exception is Micro Trains.  They mold their items in-house (in U.S.) and for decades have offered a wide variety of parts of their standard models for sale.  MT stocks brake-wheels, doors, walkways, etc. and you can get those directly from MT or through you hobby shops.

Why do they keep doing that?  Probably originally since they started this long time ago where it might have been actually more profitable. They keep on doing this even now, maybe just to be nice to the modelers (I doubt it). It must still be profitable for them (or at least breaking even).  Plus they already have a stocking and distribution system already set up.

Few other manufacturers also offer limited spare parts availability, but many others do not and I don't expect this to change anytime soon.

The way you phrased your question seems to imply that you might be planning on offering the kinds of scratch-building parts you are looking for.  Are you?

[sirenwerks]

You still don't seem to get it.

There are no spares anywhere.  Manufacturers have been ask for that multiple times.  The Chinese factories producing these models are refusing even to run extra parts/sprues for the manufacturers for spare parts!

I don't think he's wondering where the secret stash of extra sprues are, I think he's asking if there's market feasibility for such products.  The answer would be yes.  Don't plan on this being a cash cow, but yes, there are people who are interested in such products.

I think you're worng peteski, the numbers aren't even lower in N than HO.  I believe there's a latent market there.  It's just too damn difficult to get the parts, so few folks are beating the pots and clamoring for them.  I think it's more a Field of Dreams thing (but refer to the last sentence in above paragraph).

[peteski]

I don't think he's wondering where the secret stash of extra sprues are, I think he's asking if there's market feasibility for such products.  The answer would be yes.  Don't plan on this being a cash cow, but yes, there are people who are interested in such products.

I think you're worng peteski, the numbers aren't even lower in N than HO.  I believe there's a latent market there.  It's just too damn difficult to get the parts, so few folks are beating the pots and clamoring for them.  I think it's more a Field of Dreams thing (but refer to the last sentence in above paragraph).

I honestly think that the market for this type of parts in N scale (or the number of N scale modelers who get into that level of modeling) is very small (thousands rather than tens or hundreds of thousands).  Not really large enough for having an abundance of injection-molded parts produced.  But it is an ideal market for small resin or die-cast metal parts manufacturing or for 3D printing.

[sirenwerks]

I doubt its tens or hundreds of thousands in HO too.  WIth the quality of Shapeway's FXD material and whatever may come in the future I believe the JIT purchasability through that outlet is the perfect business model for such parts.  Designer creates product; manufacturer maintains facility, raw materials, and production and shipping; designer and manufacturer split proceeds; customer gets what s/he wants.  Now, if only we could get some designers on the matter...

In some product areas, like tank cars, Shapeways could be a godsend.  Thinks modular... A line of tank car ends (insulated and non-insulated with some variations in circumference) to fit several diameters of commercially available tubing; a series of domes, saddles, valves, and other hardware to suit a couple of eras; and a variety of saddles and cross members that fit a common main sill (for silled cars) that could be cut down to length needed would be awesome.  Builder could add straps and bands using styrene/brass, grabs and ladders from wire and etchings, and decal rivets to suit their individual needs; paint and decal and...  Imagine the variety this could create.

[Kentuckian]

No.

[jmlaboda]

WIth the quality of Shapeway's FXD material and whatever may come in the future I believe the JIT purchasability through that outlet is the perfect business model for such parts.

In my thinking it could be a good thing if parts were done in FXD.  There are some early parts (specifically boxcar ends) that I need with the relief being present on both sides so that I might build models of an early pulpwood car that had the underframe and ends of wood sheathed boxcars left intact with support braces being added.  Such would be very welcome to me but I doubt that a lot of folks would pop for them so Shapeways would be the way to go with them.

Below is a shot to one example of one of these cars...

[peteski]

In some product areas, like tank cars, Shapeways could be a godsend.  Thinks modular... A line of tank car ends (insulated and non-insulated with some variations in circumference) to fit several diameters of commercially available tubing; a series of domes, saddles, valves, and other hardware to suit a couple of eras; and a variety of saddles and cross members that fit a common main sill (for silled cars) that could be cut down to length needed would be awesome.  Builder could add straps and bands using styrene/brass, grabs and ladders from wire and etchings, and decal rivets to suit their individual needs; paint and decal and...  Imagine the variety this could create.

If you look at my earlier post you commented on, my idea is pretty much the same, but the execution is different.  In my world you would have a CAD library of standard model car parts and then merge them together in your own CAD design, then print the complete model. 



Jerry, as far as FXD goes, that is so today.  Think ahead few years - I expect we will have access to affordable 3D printing with resolution much higher than FXD.  More than even Prefactory printouts.

[Missaberoad]

My question was IF loose sprues of accurate boxcar car ends were available in N - as they are from multiple sources HO (with or without the premolded detail and say molded to work with MTL frames) would YOU buy them?

My answer would be a resounding Yes! My ideal project would be a boxcar core available in common heights (riveted and welded where appropriate) where you could mount the wanted ends and roofs... It would make accurately modeling AAR and PS1 boxcars a treat... 

Now I say that knowing the potential market could probably share a booth at Perkins, but a man can dream

[nkalanaga]

A library of parts would seem to me to be a good idea, and, if a clearing house of some sort was set up, each contributor could get a share of the revenue for their parts.  Order a car with core from A, ends from B, roof from C, sides from D, underframe details from E, F, and G, maybe doors from H, and they all get a little bit from the purchase.  Basically that's how many prototype railroads built their cars.

[arx nakanishi]

I think copying will do to some extent, and it's also fun too
Here are some projects i'm now working on;

Hiroshi
BOXCAR RED COLLECTION
http://riogrande.blog.so-net.ne.jp/

[SandyEggoJake]

Yep, I have been toying with the idea of production, given I've not found what I seek off the shelf.  And I've worked up files for hyper prototype Murphy 5/5/5, 7/8 and 7/5/5 ends, toying with either tossing it to Shapeways (high price per unit and lower margin) or cutting a injection mold (~$1K per item).  But my preference would be to find an existing manufacturer that would take on the project and add such to their line.  And I have some other ideas for simple parts that might find broader interest than car ends (ex: oil bunker tender inserts, custom fit to various models).  Will chat up these and others idea at the NSE event. 

And I also like the idea of a virtual car body shop, in which car bodies can be assembled in VR, from an library of predesigned components and then tossed to 3DP for output. I've started to ponder the software required to make such a reality.
 

the potential market could probably share a booth at Perkins, but a man can dream

I'll buy!  But if you get there before me, my order is a Big Country Smasher w/ both OJ & Coffee!

[Puddington]

Guess I'll jump in here and stir the pot.....

1. RTR mfg have no interest in producing a wide range of parts because there is a great deal of trouble actually getting foreign factories to make such parts in quantities that make sense; the cost of moulds is high and you'd have to fill a lot of parts or pieces on a mould; they all don't sell the same and unless you've guessed correctly and doubled or triples some parts on a mould you end up with a shortage of Murphy ends and 1000 extra Nathan 5 chime air whistles....

2. Given that no one expects (well; except a few hardened Railwire types) mfg's to make every single possible version of car ever made, exactly to the prototypical plans it stands to reason that we count on selling a good number of "close too's" to help increase individual release quantities and support marginal projects...... why would we offer a product that would help reduce the number of "close too's" we sell?

3. I'll make you a Murphy end.... will you pay $ 14.95 per piece....? No...? Neither would I.... The point is that parts sell for low prices and margin; even if their margin was high how much money can you make with a couple of hundred modellers buying $ 4.00 horns even at 300% margin..... it don;t pay for the tooling and feed the chitlens.....

4. Part... parts...... parts..... um.... where do you start....? It's a massive undertaking and you'd need capital that I'd rather spend on an RTR model that makes me my money back in a shorter period of time....

Ok; blast away............