Floating Butts

[x600]

Mark !! My Man!! This may not be the perfect answer for me, but it certainly has set my brain in motion.
After 20+ years in an nTrak Club I have beat my self silly
trying to come up with ways to solve the interface issues I have run into. Our modules have 4 tracks minimum to address at either end.
My 1 1/2" is different then your 1 1/2 " by about just enough to cause some difficulty during setup.
Even on module groupings that were built by the same person, after time they can be a bear to set up.
We have a template to use for our module end standards, but most of the modules were built before the template and
trying to fix ALL the modules is a RPITA
On our recent "Ballard Why " rebuild I went to great lengths to make sure the 9 track joints between the modules would stay aligned, including, not letting anyone else handle or set up
the modules!  Things move around. Different levels of skill are a fact of life. Set ups can be frustrating.

   This does allow some movement at the module interfaces which is often necessary.
I've always thought that being able to adjust the track ends was better than having them completely rigid. 
This helps me see a way to do it, And the name is catchy, too. 
Brilliant!!

Greg O.
mrns.org

 

[soo]

I would have to side on the quality of work side.

If the proper materials, and proper construction methods are used the end result will be a quality module that will stand the test of time. If there is an issue with warping/twisting try using a material that is weather/environment, such as aluminum or a industrial plastic.

The more parts there are, the more will go wrong. That is a fact of life. Just not my cup of tea.

Once again ,, quality tools + quality materials= quality end product. You get what you pay for.

Wyt 

[lashedup]

Mark, this is a hard problem to tackle perfectly.

We butt our joints (he said butt) on the modutrak modules and despite the modules being built perfectly aligned, we still run into issues with expansion and contraction of the wood, metal rails and even the cork as it seems to want to occasionally start to expand on the ends. Excuse the cell phone pics as I was lazy, but the modules in the photos below are five years old now (maybe more actually...) and were perfectly aligned and built together. You can see the typical wear/tear the ends get with ballast flaking off and such. The track has been cleaned so many times I can't even recall any more. That's one of the reasons we usually only use rubbing alcohol on a lint-free cloth to clean it instead of briteboy or other abrasive that wears the rails down too much. If something is really nasty on the rails we use 2000 grit sand paper. The rail lengths have also changed a little bit from expansion/contracting, getting hit, bumped and more. One rail with Atlas Code 55 does slide somewhat, but generally once feeders are connected and rail joiners are in place, it doesn't usually move. The modules themselves might also be very slightly out of alignment too right now as they have been set up for a while and probably have taken on some moisture and been bumped around:



If I change the view of the photo you can see how the center track on the left-hand module is pushing upward at the end. The right-hand center track looks like it may have caught on something and had one rail pulled upward at some point and also has a little bit of that upward flair. This is probably currently the worst of the modules right now that needs to be fixed:



This just becomes part of the regular maintenance we're doing on these things every year. We are trying a new end with styrene and some printed circuit board pieces we had made to try and see if we can make a more robust connection for the rails that shouldn't flair upward. We'll see...



By and large though, the tracks are pretty close to aligned at setup and the trains run. We have to make adjustments at the second day of the show here and there as people constantly bump the layout or the climate in the building is vastly different than where the modules get stored. Though an uneven floor at each end of the module, a little twist or warp here and there and it seems to be a never ending thing we chase with no clear cut way to prevent it. Overall we've been surprised at what the trains will run through anyway. 

I think your potential solution is ingenious on one level, but some things I would worry about:

- How do you hide the adjustment mechanism once it is aligned? And how do you hide those seams/lines? Is that worse than the occasional cars clicking or dropping into a slight gap?
- Can it be hidden if it requires too much adjustment?
- Will the track that's connected to it warp/twist too much causing equipment to jump the rails or derail? We've had super elevation that wasn't quite perfect throw *some* equipment off but not all of it.
- Can everyone in your group build these easily and to a proper spec?
- Is the hardware you use consistently available from more than one vendor in case you need to duplicate down the road?
- Ideally you want the rest of the module connection to look properly aligned or you end up with an unsightly gap or shifted modules that look lousy (especially if streets cross over). Does this bandaid make the opportunity for overall uneven modules more likely if all you have to do is adjust track?

I think the idea is very creative and well thought out, but I just worry about the cons versus the pros. We have had so many discussions about so many things related to modular layouts, that it makes my head spin some times. We have 3-4 engineers in our group and we have had some very elaborate solutions built to solve a problem that in the end maybe was just easier to solve with a simple solution that, while maybe not 100% perfect, was infinitely easier to build and more important easy to duplicate.

Just some food for thought. I like the thinking though. Keep it up! 

-jamie

[Mark W]

Excellent insights Jamie!  Your examples show just the amount of adjustment I'm envisioning, and clearly prove this has nothing to do with build quality. 

The remaining questions you pose are the same I have, which can only be answered once one of these floating butts are put into practice.  Though I've answered some of them below by taking suggestions from jagged ben and a member of the Free-moN group. 

I present, the Floating Butt Version 2.0: The Floating Booty


There is a tongue that extends 4 inches in from the endplate, the required length of straight, perpendicular track for Free-moN.  By moving the pivot point back, this creates an invisible ease into any adjustment necessary.  You can see there is now just a sliver of a gap to conceal. 


All the mechanics are now underneath so that only the slit between the tongue and terrain require concealment.  You can see I've added a side to side option as well.


Here is the 'natural' centered position. 


Hard left.  Barely a change in the 'straightness' of the track, but that's about a 2mm adjustment.


Bottomed out.  Again, barely a change in the elevation of the track.


Raised, you can see a slight change in the track.  But because we moved the pivot point back, we get a natural easement with a perfectly straight transition at the joint. 

[x600]

I like it Mark, I wish I saw this BEFORE I built the New Ballard Why. I'm going to see how much of a problem
it would be to retrofit. The modules are ballasted and basic sceniced .
Here is the joint between the 2 modules and the yard. these would be excellent to install these floating joints.



This joint might be a bit more difficult to retrofit, particularly the Green Line joint.
I have PC board ends and have avoided gluing the PC board so there is slight adjustment, either with a shim or tap sideways.



It might be worth a try on the Yard joint.


Greg O


 

[RBrodzinsky]

Mark - that is intriguing.  Where do you have the adjustment screws? At the endplate?   How is the other end "attached", if it is, or is it just floating off the roadbed?

Any thought on how this would work for modules built with 1" and 2" foam?

[Mark W]

Yep, the anchor blocks are fixed to the endplate.  On this mock-up the pivot end is floating/resting on a shelf fixed to the main board to prevent it from sagging. 
I imagine the same could be accomplished with foam by carving a channel.

I'm working on a model of the anchor and block to be 3D printed.  Screw the anchor to the endplate, the block to the tongue, and insert adjustment screw and nut.  The spring tension being provided by the white strong and flexible material itself. 

Multi-track endplates can be accomplished by alternating which endplate each track is adjusted from so that there is enough room between adjacent parts for a hex key or thumb screw.  For example, on a 4 track endplate, module A, tracks 1 and 3 are adjustable, tracks 2 and 4 are fixed.  Module b, tracks 1 and 3 are fixed while 2 and 4 are adjustable.

[Coxy]

This looks like a good solution to the problem. FreemoN modules could only join reliably if they are all built to close tolerances to the same standard. In a pool of modelers, there will inevitably be variation in how closely their modules conform to the standard.

I would not expect alignment to be solved by pins between the modules unless it was the same modules being connected together each time as in the Thompson River modular layout example above.

Aesthetics would be my main issue with floating buts but there is at least one idea earlier in the thread to address that. For my money, seeing trains jump when they hit the joint is more visually jarring than the visuals of the FBJ.

I have built a couple of FreemoN modules but I have not used them with other modules, and I'm no expert on aligning freemoM modules. I'd like to hear MC Fujiwara's take on the FBJ idea.

[jpwisc]

Interesting, a solution to a problem I didn't know existed. I've never had a problem with my modules or any of the MN FreemoN guys. Now that I've put a couple thousand miles on them I wonder if that will change.

I'm looking forward to seeing this concept evolve.

[w neal]

Excuse my ignorance, but where does one get the "brass fittings" for the bolt to go into?

Ta!

[Mark W]

Most hardware stores should carry them along side nuts and bolts.  Got mine at Ace.

[RBrodzinsky]

I was wondering, after yesterday's rain, if we were going to see pictures of different floating butts on your modules. Glad you were able to get everything moved in time.

[Mark W]

Yes, definitely NOT the type of floating we want here! 

Wednesday night we had the largest flood Lincoln has seen in at least 30 years following a train of high precipitation supercells that hit one after another from Kansas border, through Deshler/Hebron (Home of Spring Creek Model Trains) and up through Lincoln. Some areas reported 12+ inches of rainfall. (That's 1/5th of the total snowfall we had all winter!)
 

I was out with the spotting team tracking the first few cells, then returned home during a lull for a quick break.  Drove by the garage and noticed about 3 inches deep running past the door and panicked! 
Nonetheless, we were able to move everything out of harms way and it's all safe and sound.