World Speed Record Broken Again

[pjm20]

The Japanese just keep pushing the limits: http://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-32391020

Imagine going 374 mph in a train? That would nuts!

[C855B]

Wonderful advance of the technology we are unlikely to see here, even for the vaunted DC-NY route. The infrastructure costs are enormous and we don't have the collective intestinal fortitude to fund it. Extrapolating from their estimated costs to construct the 175-mile route and adjusting for U.S. project creep, NIMBY and greedy eminent domain battles, I'd guess it would be >>$300BN to do the NEC this way.

I'd simply like to see conventional rail at average 120mph speeds on non-NEC routes. I don't think we have the will for that, either.

[davefoxx]

It's not necessarily about the top speed, and I don't think a lot of people understand that.  Think about what really holds you up when you're riding a train.  For example, on the Northeast Corridor, you crawl through Baltimore (tunnels/curves), you crawl though Philadelphia (e.g., Zoo Interlocking), and you crawl through New York City (more tunnels and complicated trackage that certainly is not built for high speed).  It's these bottlenecks that really add up the time for getting from Point A to Point B.  Even if the NEC could get up to 150 mph, you're never going to avoid the slow speed trackage through the cities.  Improve the speeds of the low speed trackage, and you will significantly shorten the time to travel by train.

DFF

[Ed Kapuscinski]

Improve the speeds of the low speed trackage, and you will significantly shorten the time to travel by train.

This is incredibly true, and often overlooked. I use Amtrak to go from B'more to DC and Philly somewhat frequently. It seems like half the time of the trip to DC is spent in the tunnel and approach trackage to Union Station.

[GaryHinshaw]

Here's a word problem: 

a) Ed rides Amtrak from Bal'mer to Philly, a distance of 100 miles.  If 20 miles of the trip are taken at 20 mph and 80 miles of the trip are taken at 80 mph, what fraction of the trip is spent travelling 20 mph? b) Dave takes the same trip on the high-speed train: if 20 miles of that trip are still taken at 20 mph and 80 miles of the trip are taken at 320 mph, what fraction of the trip is spent travelling 20 mph?

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(Apparently Flip Text does not work with numbers.  )

[John]

damned math

[John]

Even in Europe .. there are slow speed sections on the TGV .. I took a cab ride back in 94 in a TGV from Marseille to Avignon .. a lot of the track was relatively low speed ..

Here is a video shot by someone else that shows the route

[John]

AMTRAK

[nkalanaga]

Trying to run Amtrak at 120 mph nationwide would require new tracks.  Given the speed of most freight trains, it's impractical to elevate curves to handle both them and 100+ mph passenger trains.  About 80 mph is the limit for general service track, unless one wants to try to run the freight faster, and that would probably require at least new truck designs.  Most freight cars aren't built for high speed service.

[wm-webb]

Dwight to Pontiac Illinois

One John Deere and it's all over

Track by Kato

[Ed Kapuscinski]

Oh yeah, grade separation is absolutely key. Absolutely.

That's part of what makes it so expensive.

But I hate thinking that we live in an America where we've given up on making our country better because "it's hard".

If dudes could conquer the Rockies with picks, shovels and black powder, the only reason we don't do this stuff is because we don't want to.

[Scottl]

In Germany, the ICE trains rarely go to their top speeds due to track limitations, and that is a fully grade-separated network.  There are stretches where you are over 150 kmh, but most of a long trip is between 100-130 kmh. 

This kind of pining for high speed train reminds me of the demonstration of the Turbo Train in Canada in the 1960s.  On the maiden trip, it slammed into a truck at a grade crossing near where I live.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UAC_TurboTrain

[jagged ben]

Here's a word problem: 

a) Ed rides Amtrak from Bal'mer to Philly, a distance of 100 miles.  If 20 miles of the trip are taken at 20 mph and 80 miles of the trip are taken at 80 mph, what fraction of the trip is spent travelling 20 mph? b) Dave takes the same trip on the high-speed train: if 20 miles of that trip are still taken at 20 mph and 80 miles of the trip are taken at 320 mph, what fraction of the trip is spent travelling 20 mph?

...

Okay, but the interesting question is not about the percentage of time spent at certain speed.  It's about the total trip time.  Trip (a) takes 2 hours, and trip (b) takes 1hr and fifteen minutes, saving 45mins. 

For comparison, if you increased the slow trackage to 40mph without changing the fast trackage, you'd have a trip of 1.5 hrs.   
Or how about a compromise?  Increase the slow trackage to 30mph and the fast trackage to 120.  Now the trip takes 1hr and 20mins.

It all comes down to which track is cheapest to improve, in my opinion.  You might think its cheaper to improve the short section, because it's shorter, but those shorter sections are probably more expensive to improve per mile.

[GaryHinshaw]

Totally agree, the smart thing to do is to minimize trip time per dollar of capital investment.  Other good figures of merit are capacity per dollar and operating cost per passenger, or per passenger-mile.  It's a multi-dimensional space.

[Philip H]

But I hate thinking that we live in an America where we've given up on making our country better because "it's hard".

If dudes could conquer the Rockies with picks, shovels and black powder, the only reason we don't do this stuff is because we don't want to.

You are talking politics there, in as much as the freight guys are not likely to reenter the passenger game.  Given that we can't even fix the bridges we build for auto and truck use . . . . :face palm:

It's a multi-dimensional space.

 :troll face: Who let the physicist out of his lab?