If you're one of those manufacturers that puts conspic stripes on cars...

[Catt]

I would rather have the conspic stripes on cars that were made before they became mandated that have a piece of 1950/60s rolling stock with 21st century graffiti.

[nkalanaga]

Or 50s/60s/early 70s schemes with consolidated stencils that were added later.  While I model the BN, the stencils were rare in mid 1974, and most of the pre-merger cars didn't have them.  I imagine the GN/NP/CB&Q/SP&S modelers are even more annoyed when they have to remove lettering that their roads never heard of.

One exception is ESM's cars, which are all based on a particular dated photo.  In that case, they tell the date in the ads, and one can chose the proper car and date combination for ones own railroad.  They usually release both "as-built" and "restenciled" versions of the same paint schemes, so everyone is happy.

[thomasjmdavis]

Caveat emptor

Which is Latin for: What is wrong with this picture (besides being HO)?  http://www.walthers.com/exec/productinfo/223-4103

[nscaler711]

you mean other than the fact that its Con Cor??


ATSF didnt have any Goose's.... and.... typical CC foobie...

[Puddington]

Life in the model train business.....

Phone call 0903 hrs " Hello; why do you idiots put those stupid stripes on my tank car, they are wrong for my era. I can't be expected to remove anything... that's it; I'm never buying your products again.." SLAM!

Phone call 0906 hrs: "Hello; why do you idiots not put the stripes on my tank cars. The car is not wrong for my era....I can't be expected to add anything - that's it; I'm never buying your products again..." SLAM !

Moral of the story...... The manufacturer can't be right unless they offer so many versions that hey go broke trying to keep people, who should learn to do a little modelling, happy..........

Sorry; but that is how it seems on this side of the fence some days - you wouldn't believe the stuff "modellers" complain about.......... we can't get it right for trying.

[C855B]

Or 50s/60s/early 70s schemes with consolidated stencils that were added later. ...

Or ACI labels (1968), or U-1 dots (1978). I personally have no issue with the few models sold with ACI labels because they happen to hit my modeling era, but it's still the same overall problem - cars with lettering features associated with hard dates sometimes MUCH later than the car's manufacture, instantly making the car "less right" for earlier eras.

I have come to refuse to buy anything with consolidated stencils (1972) and especially 3-panel stencils (1982) as well, and will shortly be purging most of them from my fleet.

Bottom line is it's simple for the modeler to add markings, but hell to remove them. All the "It's easy!" advice is meaningless to me because removal techniques vary by manufacturer and even model run. One person's successful removal is another's destroyed paint. Weathering usually can't cover-up a botched lettering removal.

[nscaler711]

Life in the model train business.....

Phone call 0903 hrs " Hello; why do you idiots put those stupid stripes on my tank car, they are wrong for my era. I can't be expected to remove anything... that's it; I'm never buying your products again.." SLAM!

Phone call 0906 hrs: "Hello; why do you idiots not put the stripes on my tank cars. The car is not wrong for my era....I can't be expected to add anything - that's it; I'm never buying your products again..." SLAM !

Moral of the story...... The manufacturer can't be right unless they offer so many versions that hey go broke trying to keep people, who should learn to do a little modelling, happy..........

Sorry; but that is how it seems on this side of the fence some days - you wouldn't believe the stuff "modellers" complain about.......... we can't get it right for trying.

I understand where you are coming from, because it isn't MODEL railroading anymore... its THIS MUST BE PERFECT BEFORE IT TOUCHES MY RAILS!!
what ever happened to the old school thinking of if i want it, i must do it myself or "fix" what has already been made, type of modeling?
Some people forget that we are MODELERS before we are RAILROADERs... well some of us are railroaders, thats besides the point though.
I don't mind if i have to fix something, it doesn't bother me if it is slightly out of my era, or totally out of my era... as evident by a lot in my fleet and rolling stock..
Rule #1 (thats a number/pound sign people not a "hashtag") Rule #1 states that : " It is Your railroad, run whatever you want!"

You guys at Rapido, keep up the great work! (I expect to see a N F40PH from you guys, please as much as I am biased towards Kato... please put their F40PH's to shame!!)

[mu26aeh]

Life in the model train business.....

Phone call 0903 hrs " Hello; why do you idiots put those stupid stripes on my tank car, they are wrong for my era. I can't be expected to remove anything... that's it; I'm never buying your products again.." SLAM!

Phone call 0906 hrs: "Hello; why do you idiots not put the stripes on my tank cars. The car is not wrong for my era....I can't be expected to add anything - that's it; I'm never buying your products again..." SLAM !

Moral of the story...... The manufacturer can't be right unless they offer so many versions that hey go broke trying to keep people, who should learn to do a little modelling, happy..........

Sorry; but that is how it seems on this side of the fence some days - you wouldn't believe the stuff "modellers" complain about.......... we can't get it right for trying.

This is life in any business.  We brought in a flavored water line at work and it had Splenda for a sweetener. People with diabetes loved it, others said they won't buy it bc it wasn't sweetened with sugar.  Why can't you have sugar sweetener ?  And if other way around, it would be why couldn't you have artificial sweetener ?  It's not our product, we don't produce it.  Can't make everyone happy

[C855B]

I understand where you are coming from, because it isn't MODEL railroading anymore... its THIS MUST BE PERFECT BEFORE IT TOUCHES MY RAILS!!
what ever happened to the old school thinking of if i want it, i must do it myself or "fix" what has already been made, type of modeling?
Some people forget that we are MODELERS ...

I dunno. It's easy to be glib about "we're modelers, after all", but in all honesty that is an HO'ers perspective. It's not possible to do everything when the objective is a fleet large enough to run 60-80 car trains, something that's only "a problem" in N scale. I personally don't have enough time on this planet for every piece of rolling stock to cross my bench for 30 to 45 minute lettering removal sessions. It's just another version of make-versus-buy.

I personally consider things like consolidated stencils to be scene spoilers in 1950's- and 1960's-era modeling, but I guess that's the old railfan in me.

[Jesse6669]

Bottom line is it's simple for the modeler to add markings, but hell to remove them.

Exactly.  A couple small decals takes what, 10 minutes?

[Scottl]

No paint scheme is going to satisfy everyone and there are ways to deal with removing or adding them.  Asking everyone to add stripes is no more or less problematic than asking folks to remove them.

I suspect the average purchaser could care less, which is what the market is.  We are what you call "anomalies" 

[C855B]

... We are what you call "anomalies" 

Speak for yourself.

[thomasjmdavis]

As a consumer, I just want to have enough information at hand in this "pre-order" world (where I have to buy it before anyone actually makes it) to be able to judge whether I want it or not.  There are modelers out there who are modeling 2015 in eastern New England, and they want everything to be prototypical for that time and place, whereas you have almost no chance of selling me anything that has a paint date after September 1, 1956 unless I am intentionally putting an anachronism on display, like a 1957 Chevy on the layout, just to see if anyone notices.  And no, I don't repaint my ATSF map cars, even if most had been in real life.  But in recent years, I have bought more "ship and travel."

I am going to assume the reason the cars have stripes is that MT concluded they would sell more that way than without stripes.

Phone call 0903 hrs " Hello; why do you idiots put those stupid stripes on my tank car, they are wrong for my era. I can't be expected to remove anything... that's it; I'm never buying your products again.." SLAM!

What it really comes down to is- if you don't want it, don't buy it.  That is better than buying it anyway, and then complaining about it.  By all means, send them an email- "if you produce it in such and such scheme, for this time period, I will buy __ of them."  It might not work, but then again, if they get enough email saying the same thing, it might.  Or, one of the custom painters will pick up on the demand, and produce what you want.

But at the manufacturer end- if you put stripes on it - don't expect the folks who don't want stripes to buy it anyway at $25 each.

And kudos to manufacturers like ESM and Fox Valley, who go out of their way to provide multiple, historically accurate paint schemes, and enough info so that I know what I am getting before I order it.

[Puddington]

I can appreciate the frustration of a modeller who wants an "x" for his/her 1973 layout and when that car finally is offered it has post 1973 details. Very few people want to have to attack a $ 40.00 model; let alone a multiple 100.00 engine. But there has to be a realization that we live in the best era yet for the availability of models. There are more prototypical models available than ever before. More multiple road number offerings, more road number specific detail offerings and more odd ball or smaller run prototypes than most of us old timers could ever have dreamed of.

But, like with many things; a little success breeds the unbridled desire for "more"... and all too quickly that desire becomes "demand" with a small, but often vocal group of people who seemingly go out of their way to find areas of discontent and make them capital cases....

Recently we unveiled a Amtrak F40PH-2D in HO. Highly detailed, the models will have road specific lettering, details, add on parts and the un numbered will come with full decal sheets so you can make every possible road number... real or imagined. One might think that offering 8 road numbers in a phase and an un numbered unit with decals would be satisfactory..... but it isn't.

I have received no less than six emails bitterly complaining that we are not offering a specific road number they want, berating us for not offering a "custom road number service", saying we're not customer driven for expecting someone to decal a unit and down right yelling at us for not adding the "optional" (for your era) parts to the model instead of giving them to the modeller for free in a baggie....... Now; it wasn't too many years ago you couldn't get an F40PH-2D, let alone a detailed one with optional parts, in multiple road numbers and an optional un-numbered unit..... but that is lost on some people; we are not serving their interests....

So; as a manufacturer you just have to say "fine, sorry, I'm afraid that's all we can do" and then scan the internet to see how badly you are being portrayed...... As I said, you can't win. Now; if this sounds like sour grapes then maybe it is a little, when you're proud of what you're offering and someone blasts you for what you think is an unreasonable demand it's hard to turn the other cheek... but I truly believe that we live in the best possible era for offerings and that we run the risk of "forgetting" how to model if we expect the RTR product we have available to be "all things to all people"... and that isn't good for the hobby, nor our enjoyment of it.

Just my personal take........

[Dave V]

Pud,

I hear ya, but that is life in the Internet age for better or for worse.  Do what you do and do it well.  It's one thing when you have to make a decision about which correct versions to offer; I think you can tune any of the negative feedback out at that point.  Now, when a manufacturer chooses to use the wrong colors, wrong road number, wrong dimensions, etc. in spite of overwhelming resources available to do it right...that's when there's probably some merit to the negative feedback.  I don't own any Rapido products, but it looks to me as if you guys are out to do it right rather than do it quickly.

Is there any evidence to suggest that run-of-the-mill Internet grousing actually hurts sales?  I can imagine, OTOH, when something is universally panned (witness the IM SD45-2), sales probably suffer...but a half-dozen butthurt hobbyists should not make or break you.