Preproduction photos of the BLI's new N scale locomotives

[basementcalling]

I was going to post these in the Springfield show thread but since these are all close-ups of those locos I figured I'll put them in a separate thread.

Few things I'm questioning:

The traction tire driver seems to be driven by siderods (not a best design) while 2 other drivers are gear driven.  The middle 2 drivers are blind.  Was that really necessary on a 4-8-2 loco?  Was the real loco also built that way?

The Centipede has all the axles driven - that is good. One thing I didn't care for was the photo-etched train phone antenna.  It looks very flat (2-dimensional) and heavy-handed.

(Attachment Link)

But it does have needle axle pick up on the tender, so there is that.

[Lemosteam]

Laird slide, valve gear, casting for water scoop, long distance tender, man I hope they sell parts separately!  That Centepede looks like it's going to be a pulling beast.

Thanks for taking tose pics Peteski!

[GaryHinshaw]

Did you get any right-side-up shots of the steamer?   

[peteski]

I had an old Lifelike GP38 and it had tires that made it wobble and roll down the track.  I assumed it was something that was not needed anymore, but you make good points.

If it was an old LL GP38 , it would have probably wobble with or without traction tires.  Those old Yugoslavian  mechanisms were quite crude.  With old-school pickup wipers behind  the wheels 

[BeastofTheEast]

Yes.  Drivers #2 and #3 were blind.  Although a quick scan of Pennsy Power I has no mention of it, page 77 of Classic Power #8:PRR M1 says "Flanged wheels were used only on the front and rear driving wheels". The blind drivers are clearly visible in the test plant photo of #4700 on page 199 in Pennsy Power.  They are also noticeable in many other pictures in the book and the drawings in Classic Power clearly show the drivers to be blind.

Yeah. But it still sucks to have blind drivers on a 4-8-2 model. I asked BLI if the units will come with optional flanged versions of the center drivers so we can swap them out, they replied NOPE.

[reinhardtjh]

It's prototypical.  If they had put flanges on them, then rivet counters would complain.  If they don't, then others complain.  Other than the visual effect is there a problem with not having flanges?    I guess it might cause more derailments.  Or at least, more "catastrophic" derailments, as once the lead or trailing wheel goes off the track there is nothing to keep it from going farther. If more drivers had flanges then maybe it would "only derail a little".  Visually, the overall largeness of N scale flanges makes it that more obvious that the middle two are blind.  In prototype photos it can be hard to detect if you don't look for it.

[Dave V]

It's prototypical.  If they had put flanges on them, then rivet counters would complain.  If they don't, then others complain.  Other than the visual effect is there a problem with not having flanges?    I guess it might cause more derailments.  Or at least, more "catastrophic" derailments, as once the lead or trailing wheel goes off the track there is nothing to keep it from going farther. If more drivers had flanges then maybe it would "only derail a little".  Visually, the overall largeness of N scale flanges makes it that more obvious that the middle two are blind.  In prototype photos it can be hard to detect if you don't look for it.

I'd think a rigid 8-wheel flanged wheelbase would be more prone to derailments or loss of contact on anything other than perfect track.

I really think calling BLI out on following the prototype here is a bit past ridiculous.  Remember, too, that most folks are going to try to run these on sharp curves (myself included...13.75") and so had they departed from prototype and added flanges, the minimum radius would have gone through the roof and been a deal breaker for many.

[randgust]

My Hallmark ATSF 4-8-4 wouldn't do 15" radius when I got it - all drivers flanged and not enough lateral movement in the bearings.

You're darned if you do and darned if you don't.  If you look at those that have made it work with an eight-coupled drive and all flanges, you have to have a LOT of lateral movement at least on the center pair.  And the rods have to be individual, so they can 'flex'.   That's more or less the Kato Mike.  To do that right you also should probably gear all the drivers.

The alternative is that you take up all the lateral movement and blind the center drivers.   That's what I did on the Hallmark and it's run flawlessly ever since, although that's probably the riskiest and most error-prone modification I've ever done on a brass locomotive.

Don't forget on the prototype typically had wider tires on blind drivers as well.   Today those surviving steam locomotives with blind drivers and wide treads have to be very careful if out on foreign territory, as hitting a 'modern' self-guarded frog with wide tires has been known to feel like driving over top of a semitruck and knock the crew all over the cab.

[C855B]

The center drivers are blind on their HO version, too, so why should anyone expect otherwise? I think John has it, the "missing" flanges per prototype are simply more noticeable on an N model.

[Norway2112]

How is BLI about ordering spare parts?  I had hoped this would be a good foundation for kit bashes of other 8 drivered locos, but the blind drivers kill that thought.  I can't complain though as my intention for the M1's was to not be M1's...so in that regard I have no legitimacy to complain if they made it per the prototype.

If I could order an extra pair of flanged drivers and swap the metal rims out, I would be good to go.  Assuming it wouldn't destroy the axles trying to remove the rim, ala Kato GS4 axles.

Phillip

[BeastofTheEast]

How is BLI about ordering spare parts?  I had hoped this would be a good foundation for kit bashes of other 8 drivered locos, but the blind drivers kill that thought.  I can't complain though as my intention for the M1's was to not be M1's...so in that regard I have no legitimacy to complain if they made it per the prototype.

If I could order an extra pair of flanged drivers and swap the metal rims out, I would be good to go.  Assuming it wouldn't destroy the axles trying to remove the rim, ala Kato GS4 axles.

Phillip

I also considered ordering extra drivers for the alteration. But thats a big if. Hoprfully the metal tires can be removed without destroying/warping the wheels/axle

[peteski]

Geez, look over my original post - I was simply asking about the validity of the blind drivers - not calling anybody out.  This place is getting really touchy! 

I asked because I haven't seen many stem locos with rigid X-8-X wheel arrangement with blind drivers. I have seen many locos with more than 4 driven axles have blind drivers (like X-10-X or X-12-X).  Locos such as FEF-3 or GS-4 have longer wheelbases and no blind drivers. How many other N scale models of X-8-X locos (with wheelbases even longer that that locos) are in N scale with blind middle drivers?  I'm not familiar with the prototype - that is why I asked or questioned it. I just took bunch of photos for the benefit of all the SPFs here (since the BLI salesman let me do that).

Is it all clear now?

[daniel_leavitt2000]

They are actually quite good about it.

How is BLI about ordering spare parts?  I had hoped this would be a good foundation for kit bashes of other 8 drivered locos, but the blind drivers kill that thought.  I can't complain though as my intention for the M1's was to not be M1's...so in that regard I have no legitimacy to complain if they made it per the prototype.

If I could order an extra pair of flanged drivers and swap the metal rims out, I would be good to go.  Assuming it wouldn't destroy the axles trying to remove the rim, ala Kato GS4 axles.

Phillip

[victor miranda]

good photos peteski.

I did hope you would return.

I'll be quicker with a thank you next time.


about the M1.
I am hoping it is intended as engineering sample.

looks like it will  come with wires engine to tender
I dislike the trailing truck mount...
the tender pick-ups will give fits in service, if it remains as it is in the photos.

and I can't imagine I will not buy one
and I am curious about the second one...

it looks to be a good likeness of the PRR M1.

victor

[reinhardtjh]

Geez, look over my original post - I was simply asking about the validity of the blind drivers - not calling anybody out.  This place is getting really touchy! 

I can't say for sure, but I'm thinking Dave meant BeastoftheEast.  Or me.  Not sure.  But I wasn't complaining. Just responding to Beast's post.  I'm okay with the blind drivers.  And I sure wasn't calling you out. I was just responding with what information I had. I had forgotten that the two driver sets were blind.  I knew the PRR I1s had the middle (3rd driver) blind but I had forgotten about the M1's.