Rapido FL-9 progress

[daniel_leavitt2000]

Sounds a bit existential, but if I get what you're saying... you think that the Highliner shell is less accurate, even though it matches better to the prototype?

Or that models need to be tooled softer because of scale proportion issues?  I guess I need to refresh my memory on Gary's evaluation of optics and centered heralds on tenders to recalibrate my eye.

That is exactly what I am saying. Lets take a good close look at EMD door panels:
https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7523/16164149245_f351134c73_o.jpg

Now lets look at GE door panels:
https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7514/15954369838_569c4b810a_o.jpg

See the difference? GE units have flush fitting doors with large panel gaps where EMD units have overlapping panels with no visible gaps.

We have two C40-8W models that take two different approaches. Atlas uses EMD's panel philosophy: the doors are positioned over the body, simulating overlapping panels. Bachmann simply cut panel gaps into the body to simulate doors. Everyone generally agrees that the Atlas model is better looking, even though the Bachmann model is a more accurate representation of the prototype (gap width not withstanding).

We do talk a lot about oversized details like walkway tread, handrail size etc. The consensus is that oversized may look better to the eye than something so small as to be invisible to the naked eye. This also translates to overall shapes as well.

Keep in mind that air has a diluting effect to objects in the distance. Not only does this affect color (everything turning a bluish gray in the distance), but also detail. This is why satellite telescopes are much more accurate even if they are not as powerful. This is also why large expanses of scenery on model railroads always look off. Even if a 4' module was exact scale, the lack of haze in the distance (and the subtle difference in optical distortion will play tricks with your eyes.

I think that is what we are seeing here.

At least we can all agree the prototype nose is not cast. 

[lashedup]

So a couple of thoughts to ponder...

1. First and foremost this is a DISCUSSION forum.  A place to discuss and debate things. It seems surprising that some people in here are so upset that a couple people have pointed out some things they see as not quite right. Granted maybe Skibbe's bedside manner is lacking (he is an engineer after all and most engineers I know are bluntly honest and have poor brain to mouth functions at times), but I don't think anyone was trying to outright attack Rapido or their model. Personal attacks didn't come till later from another vendor.

2. Rapido, Pudds, Bill, Jason et. al - Guys, I have always had deep admiration for the enthusiasm and attention to detail you put into everything you do. I read from top to bottom every email newsletter you send out and enjoy them thoroughly. I know you guys carry that passion into your work and based on this topic and the meat reefer one, you also take this stuff pretty personally. Don't. This isn't a witch hunt here, just a bunch of fanatical guys that point out every detail and strive to get them perfect. You guys went through the trouble to 3D scan the nose and then (I'm assuming based on your newsletter story) that you converted that file to a solids modeler. I have no idea if you did this in house or had China do it (the newsletter seems to say China) but *maybe* there is a possibility that the conversion made compromises to the original 3D scan. Anything is plausible. I guess I'm surprised the general attitude though was along the line of "tough" or a discussion about Internet tough guys and that you'd like to tell them to go to H*ll. Look, we all have long days, bad days and things that get under our skin. But at the end of the day these people in here are all potential customers and maybe a response of, "Huh, sorry we agree to disagree" or "maybe we need to take a closer look at our conversion" or "I can see what you are saying but..." with some insight as to what took place and why might diffuse it or give people some perspective. Maybe something positive and constructive will come out of it. I'm not trying to tell anyone how to run their business, but just politely point out that this is the way this came across to me and I really like what you guys do. Nobody is perfect and most of these models aren't either. If you post samples up in a discussion forum, you're going to get discussion. Good and bad.

3. Railwire - banning Mike and Jason? That's your call, its your site and I get that, but this wasn't a personal attack on someone (at least it wasn't till Brian got a little hot under the collar ). Yes, it was a pointed debate about the nose of a new model and the two sides disagreed. One was a vendor which adds the additional burden of being responsible for answering said questions about their model. But you guys already moved product discussions to a separate forum because they occasionally got a little hot in the debate department. Now you guys banned a couple of readers over more debate. The next question is what's next? Having run a very large forum for years, my best advice is to see the forest through the trees and give it a little time. These things usually work themselves out.

We are all into model railroading. This isn't rabid NFL, NBA, NHL, MLB team rivalries. This isn't Chevy versus Ford. We're all here to talk about models and how to build better ones. Railwire's reputation is that it is for more serious modelers and the general critiques here, while sometimes hard to take, are always rooted in striving to be better - not tearing other people down.

Just my .02 cents and if you guys delete this after taking this much time to think through this and type it out, well then, I know where things stand.

-jamie

[Missaberoad]

^^ +1

[tom mann]

Jamie, I deleted/edited out the personal attack posts from this thread, so that is why you can't find them.  I value other's criticisms, but sometimes folks cross a line.  Then, they are given a ban since they were warned many times in the past.  What is your motivation for posting this two weeks after the event?

[lashedup]

I don't venture into the HO forum much and in a conversation with Mike he mentioned that he's got a one month time out from Railwire. I was going to post something in the meat reefer debate but left it alone in the end. This time I wanted to post something.

I've been reading and participating in this forum for a long time now and enjoy it a lot. While not part of the original crew here, I do oddly feel like this is a neighborhood bar I enjoy and feel like along the way I have gotten to know the people that come here often. I know there has been growth here over the years, particularly after Atlas forums closed down and with that comes some growing pains. I think overall you guys have handled it really well. I felt compelled to say something here because I guess it bugged me how this went sideways and that I don't want to see what you guys have here get clouded over by stuff like this. As I get older I find myself increasingly not getting involved in things like this because it often isn't worth it and most times I just don't care enough to bother. Since Railwire is one of the few places I enjoy reading and spending time at, I just felt compelled to say something hoping that everyone involved looks at the larger picture over what should have been a discussion on the accuracy of a model. Maybe everyone involved just needed to step back and take a breather. It also makes me feel a little better that at least I said *something* rather than just shrugging and walking away frustrated that another place I frequent is going to the dogs... (not really)

Anyhoo, carry on. I didn't know anything was edited out of the original posts.  

[tom mann]

That would be good advice for your friend Skibbe:  he pointed out the perceived flaws but just needed to walk away rather than use language and "get under your skin" phrases that escalate a problem. I edited the posts because it isn't fair to the others to have a locked thread with good information (Skibbe's included) and no more chance for discussion. 

Now, someone please talk about the HO scale FL-9.

[bbussey]

There were two fully assembled samples painted in the New Haven "New Image" scheme on display at the Springfield show this weekend, and they looked outstanding.
 

[Ian MacMillan]

I like turtles.

[tom mann]

+1 Internets to Bryan B.

[delamaize]

I like turtles.

i like trains