PRR Diners

[CBQ Fan]

I am looking forward to the CB&Q offering!

[skm]

There is a nice pic of #4400 in Pennsylvania Dining Cars by Liljestrand & Sweetland pp.22. Some of the D78 diners were rebuilt in the 30's into diner/lounge cars, as indicated by the window pattern, with six large windows in the dining area and four/five smaller windows in the lounge area (the MTL car).

The caption mentions that #4400 was never modernized and retained its class 3D7P2 trucks (six wheel) until being whitelined in 1959.
Joe posted pics of the artwork for these trucks in an earlier thread. They look fantastic! 
Not sure if they have offset bolster holes, or if four-wheel trucks (2F-P1) would swap in without mods.
But I'll be buying a few of these.... and hope the trucks are available separately! 

There are quite a few pics of various subclasses of D78 diners, and they were largely built in the 20's, A/C installed in the 30's, and modernized in the 50's.

[Sokramiketes]

The MTL pics are up on the website now.

http://www.micro-trains.com/nr-1411-prrhw.php
http://www.micro-trains.com/MN1411.pdf

Are the lower double pinstripes too far apart?

[bbussey]

Are the lower double pinstripes too far apart?

Good question.

From the MTL November media pack:


One of the earlier factory Pennsy decos on one of the other models:


We'd have to see the photo in the Liljestrand & Sweetland book to be certain.  But it is possible that it is correct.  On Pullman-owned Pennsy-painted cars, the double 1" pinstripes were 3/4" apart and rested directly on the horizontal beltrail, above and below the rivets.  On Pennsy-owned cars, the double 1" pinstripes were 1-1/8" apart and rested 1-1/8" below the beltrail.  It does appear that the stripe distance is too far apart on the model (as well as the PENNSYLVANIA not vertically centered on the letterboard), but we'll have to see production-run models to verify.

[reinhardtjh]

The photo is on page 22 of "Pennsylvania Dining Cars", and, unfortunately, looks like the striping is too far apart.  The picture looks more like the striping on the Lake Maitland than the 4400 diner in the media pack.

However, the "PENNSYLVANIA" is not vertically centered in the photograph either.  Looks like MTL got that part right. 

[Bobster]

Ok so how close are the PRR diners to the Wabash diners?  The window count seems right but I can't remember about the window shapes.

A PRR Queen Mary Parlor Observation would be a good thing.  Could be painted for Wabash ones, real nice.....Hint hint.  Do a fairly modernized version and they could be current as there are still a few around.   But that would be a Parlor rather than a diner, sorry about the thread drift as I'm still trying to complete my Wabash Cannon Ball.

Thank you,
Bob Lipka

[eric220]

That diner is hot. I may be buying more than my originally intended one.

[thomasjmdavis]

Bob, thanks for bringing the Wabash diners into the discussion.  As it happens, I need one and wasn't even thinking about the MT car.

I am not an expert on either WAB or PRR, but your question got me looking, and there was some discussion a while back on the Wabash HS yahoo group.  And some of the folks who are more expert than I think that the WAB 1563-64 cafe lounges (which were originally built as full diners) were very similar to D78's, although closer to a D78AR.  But in general layout, I think the main difference is that the AR had 4 small windows on the aisle side, instead of 5 as the model- which I understand to be a D78-C.  My assumption is that there are other detail differences between WAB and PRR, but the MT car is close enough for me, at least as a stand in until I kitbash something closer.  As I recollect, Bob Chapman some years back used an HO PRR diner as the basis for an L&N car- that would take more window modification, but another possibility.  Looks like MT will be on the Christmas list at my house this year, along with paint stripper and a couple shades of blue.

Tom D

[thomasjmdavis]

A photo of Wabash 1568 is here (about 1/2 way through the article) along with info on the Cannonball and some other good pics):
http://ctr.trains.com/~/media/Files/PDF/Great%20Limiteds%20Online/GL131209/Cannon%20Ball%20Runs.pdf

[Bobster]

Tom,

Thank you for the link to that article.  I had forgotten about it.  The new cars look a whole lot closer than the Rivarossi Diner I currently have painted blue, but not added decals yet.

Bob

[gelboy45]

Hi
Seeing the comments regarding suitability for a Wabash model, are there Wabash decals available?
Many thanks.
Gerry

[gelboy45]

Meant to add. can we have some heavyweights painted Wabash (and Illinois Central)  please!
Gerry
;O)

Apologies for being OT.

[JoeD]

The picture was a photo prop.  Will post shots of the real car this morning.  Stripes are correct.  The image was a photoshop to make the Micro News.  Relax.   

Joe

Good question.

From the MTL November media pack:


One of the earlier factory Pennsy decos on one of the other models:


We'd have to see the photo in the Liljestrand & Sweetland book to be certain.  But it is possible that it is correct.  On Pullman-owned Pennsy-painted cars, the double 1" pinstripes were 3/4" apart and rested directly on the horizontal beltrail, above and below the rivets.  On Pennsy-owned cars, the double 1" pinstripes were 1-1/8" apart and rested 1-1/8" below the beltrail.  It does appear that the stripe distance is too far apart on the model (as well as the PENNSYLVANIA not vertically centered on the letterboard), but we'll have to see production-run models to verify.

[Denver Road Doug]

Gosh Joe, you're really beginning to become a buzzkill....this thread could have made 15-20 pages or even more.   

Knowing the SPF's, it probably will anyway I guess...

[JoeD]

Here is a scan of the model going out...sorry I couldn't provide more grist for the mill   

Joe