Dead railn

[JoeW]

I have been following the dead rail movement in the bigger scales for a while now and it's fascinating but I haven't seen much discussion on the subject amongst N scalers.  I suppose the space requirements for batteries are the more obvious limitation. However similar size requirements held N scale back from the initial dcc movement in N scale.  Look what we have to day in dcc.  Are there pioneer/visionaries among us here breaking the trail (or deadrail) yet?  If so what do you have to say or better yet what do you have to show? 

[u18b]

I don't know what this is.

Battery operated trains?

Not sure what the point would be over DCC- other than fewer shorts.

[Kisatchie]

I'd rather have DCC powered rails (and the necessary wiring) than having to replace batteries every so often in all my locos.


Hmm... if it has anything
to do with electricity, Kiz
gets it wrong...

[eric220]

I don't know what this is.

Battery operated trains?

Not sure what the point would be over DCC- other than fewer shorts.

Yes, and the main point is never cleaning your track again. It also helps if you're operating on outdoor track, where cleaning and shorts due to the environment are more of a problem. My dad models in G, and uses battery operated locos. They actually do use DCC decoders, they just get power off of batteries instead of the tracks. Keeping the batteries charged can be a pain, and I personally prefer the track-powered DCC route.

[JoeW]

Sorry to be presumptuous, here is a brief video that speaks volumes about what dead rail operation is.
https://vimeo.com/56294214

[thomasjmdavis]

Actually, with a bit of work, you might be able to solve the problem of getting young people interested in model railroading.  If you can figure out how to fit in enough rechargeable battery to power a substantial train, you can probably figure out how to make it bluetooth compatible, so the teenager can run trains with his smartphone.

[JoeW]

Actually, with a bit of work, you might be able to solve the problem of getting young people interested in model railroading.  If you can figure out how to fit in enough rechargeable battery to power a substantial train, you can probably figure out how to make it bluetooth compatible, so the teenager can run trains with his smartphone.

Now that is a visionary statement!   

[ryan_wilkerson]

I think you could solve the problem with charging using something like some cell phones use: QI
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Qi_%28inductive_power_standard%29
If you could figure out how to mount the battery in an N scale locomotive, you could have a place on the layout to "fuel" your locomotives using QI.

I hadn't heard of deadrail, very interesting and thanks for enlightening us.

[Lemosteam]

Why not leave the track powered only as a constant source of battery trickle charging voltage. Then use that battery to power the locomotive. Call it "almost dead rail".

[JoeW]

Why not leave the track powered only as a constant source of battery trickle charging voltage. Then use that battery to power the locomotive. Call it "almost dead rail".

Yep good idea!

[JoeW]

I think you could solve the problem with charging using something like some cell phones use: QI
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Qi_%28inductive_power_standard%29
If you could figure out how to mount the battery in an N scale locomotive, you could have a place on the layout to "fuel" your locomotives using QI.

I hadn't heard of deadrail, very interesting and thanks for enlightening us.

Very interesting

[jagged ben]

Gee, I don't see any problem with it...

Except for the fact that there's nowhere in most N scale locos to put a battery.   

[thomasjmdavis]

Some of the new battery technologies may result in very thin and in some cases, flexible, batteries- which in 5 or 10 years might provide an easy fix.  But in the meanwhile, since it has come up here, I am kinda thinking of experimenting with some rechargeable batteries and an old locomotive.  Batteries and whatever other circuitry could go into a B unit or baggage car for purposes of the experiment (something that the pioneers of DCC in N scale sometimes resorted to in the early days).
My thinking on having "isolated" charging areas was that it would avoid any chance of shorts, with the added advantage that we would have to operate more realistically- refueling stops, engine changes at division yards and that sort of thing.  Plus, not sure if the power requirements for a recharging track would be the same as for a standard DCC layout.

Given that the batteries would have some weight, might be possible to eliminate some of the frame that is primarily there for increased traction, and fit enough batteries into something like an E8 or a transfer locomotive, even given the current level of technology. 

[C855B]

... Given that the batteries would have some weight...

Not so much. The current and evolving technologies are producing very light batteries with relatively large charge densities. Think in terms of the LiPoly batteries being used by the micro-flyers. The rub here is, yes, you can cut away the frame and get a moderate amount of on-board charge, but the weight sacrifice in terms of traction will be quite compromised.

Also, for recharging... recharge blocks. You don't need to make the entire RR have power on the rails.

Since deadrail relies on wireless control, don't dismiss the need for enough antenna to maintain contact. There is an old saw in radio communications, "more metal = more signal". It's not quite that simple, but the small space left after you're done with frame, weight, mechanical parts and electronics means you're going to be left puzzling over where to put the antenna(s). Granted, the antenna can be something as simple as lines of conductive paint inside the shell, but there are other considerations. You don't want to be left antenna-poor, resulting in dead zones where you have no control of your train. A dead-man system where the trains stops when radio contact is lost is no better than dirty track, in my book.

[eric220]

Now that is a visionary statement!

I would reapectfully disagree; the idea of running trains from a smartphone is not uniquely suited to battery operation. There are already WiFi smartphone apps for the powered-rail DCC market. There is nothing preventing development of hardware/software that would allow a direct app-to-DCC-bus connection without a PC in between. Whichever power source you use, I think the problem of expanding the hobby is much more complex.