Brick Smoke Stack...out of wood! But what kind?

[CacheJunction]

Ok everybody, just a quick note to let you know that David and I are amicably resolving things in private. In the meantime, please, let's stay on the subject of the thread.

[Alaska Railroader]

Ok everybody, just a quick note to let you know that David and I are amicably resolving things in private. In the meantime, please, let's stay on the subject of the thread.

OK, so on the subject, have you tested Peteski's theory yet? I'm anxious to know how the brick pattern came out on a tapered dowel.

Now, just to assure you, it took me awhile to learn how to post here on The Railwire (aka TRW) because I felt like an ignoramus compared to these great guys. I still struggle with it. Many times I had wished I had kept my mouth shut instead of saying what I said. But this gang is very forgiving when they know you mean well.

It was extremely disconcerting the way you strongly attempted to put a senior member, a moderator and modeler extraordinaire to boot, in his place on here. I have participated with you on this topic in spite of my very bad feelings about that post you had written. Thank you for whatever it is you are doing to resolve the issue with DKS. But please assure, at least me, that you have learned from this and that we can move forward with some confidence that when you participate we won't be wondering if we will say something that might trigger the same reaction but against us instead of him? Because, in my case, I will never speak the wisdom that the majority of this membership has to share and I guarantee you that I will once again say something I wish I hadn't. But trolling, you need to learn the definition better, and better yet you should leave the word out of your vocabulary on TRW. This is my own advise to you and nothing I am demanding from you.

Need photos of your newest dowel attempt....

[peteski]

...and if someone really wants to troll, we have an emoticon to use for those instances: 

 

[CacheJunction]

OK, so on the subject, have you tested Peteski's theory yet? I'm anxious to know how the brick pattern came out on a tapered dowel.

Been really busy today. I didn't even get to check the envelope option on the drawing in Corel. I will hopefully get the dowels tomorrow and engrave one in the evening. I will certainly post pictures.

I hate to say it but I truly believe you are going to have to redraw your pattern to fit the taper.

Am I correct in assuming that you are able to keep the dowel perfectly parallel with the laser head and the rail it rides on because you can lower one end?

I was afraid of this, but it wouldn't be the first time. And, yes, you and Peteski have it correct about how the rotary attachment works. I should just post a video of it in action.

Here is a sample of a brick pattern with envelope added.

This can't hurt to try. If I draw a rectangle on top with the width of the base of the dowel, it would be the right shape. I'll hopefully let you know tomorrow if this is even necessary.

[Sokramiketes]

... and it is unprecedented that a member asks a long time member to not respond to threads.

-Tom

Not quite unprecedented... In fact I know DKS has requested it himself of another long time member. 

It seems ok to provide support as to why DKS should be viewed as helpful and not as a troll, from those that know him and have seen him help others on the forum consistently.  But that doesn't mean that Cache didn't feel slighted when he said he prefers wood and someone keeps telling him his opinion is wrong.

I'd still like to see an apples to apples comparison of a weathered brick texture on acrylic because I don't think that goal will be met as well on acrylic. Until that happens, it's only opinion either side for me.

[peteski]

Not quite unprecedented... In fact I know DKS has requested it himself of another long time member. 

It seems ok to provide support as to why DKS should be viewed as helpful and not as a troll, from those that know him and have seen him help others on the forum consistently.  But that doesn't mean that Cache didn't feel slighted when he said he prefers wood and someone keeps telling him his opinion is wrong.

I'd still like to see an apples to apples comparison of a weathered brick texture on acrylic because I don't think that goal will be met as well on acrylic. Until that happens, it's only opinion either side for me.

I'm the person who first suggested using acrylic (and/or resin). Maybe I should apologize.    As I explained, it made sense to me to simulate a masonry surface with plastic rather than with wood.  I didn't even consider at that time that acrylic could easily (with no prep or sealing) be used as a master for mold making.

DKS's lengthy illustrated and detailed response to me wasn't stating that the other David is wrong. It was simply providing example after example of excellent results of modeling masonry using acrylic and raster laser technique.  It is the rastering process which gives the natural uneven look to the surface (whether it is wood or acrylic).

I happen to agree with DKS and Karin, but David is of course free to do whatever he prefers.

[DKS]

Not quite unprecedented... In fact I know DKS has requested it himself of another long time member.

Just to set the record straight, I asked the member to simply "leave me alone" after one too many "jokes" that failed. And this was a few months after I was asked by that same member to leave him alone after one too many "jokes" that failed. Different circumstances, different request, different reasons.

This will be my final remarks on this matter. Please read the last two lines from the post that started this whole mess, and ask, 1) was I suggesting that David was wrong? and 2) was I being derogatory in any way? (Emphasis added to reinforce the point.)

Bottom line, I'm not saying it's wrong to laser wood; I'm simply pointing out some of its limitations. Acrylic suited our aesthetics and supported our production style in ways wood simply could not.

Regardless, I applaud you for pushing the envelope in other ways.

I have apologized to David for my over-enthusiasm. No harm was intended whatsoever, and it will not happen again.

And now, hopefully, this whole matter is laid to rest, and we can all return to the original topic.

[John]

Ok, everyone has had their say and the parties involved are square.

This thread is about a wooden dowel with laser cutting to make it look like a smoke stack.  I for one would like to see this develop.  Please keep this discussion about the modeling ...

[CacheJunction]

Unfortunately the tapered dowels are not ready yet. They will hopefully be cut this next week.

I was able to figure out the envelope effect...thanks Peteski.



I calculated the taper ratio and modified a 5.5" square of brick pattern to see how much trapezoidal effect there was and I can hardly see any angle on the stretched bricks at all. These are the bricks at the top:



And these are at the bottom:



So the question remains of whether there will be enough compression that the laser burns the bricks at the small end of the dowel too deep. Maybe after a coat of paint it won't be noticeable. Gonna have to wait a few more days to find out.

[Alaska Railroader]

I'm still wondering how you can escape what I envision will be a very noticeable seam at the point where the first bricks lasered meet the last bricks lasered, running from the top of the stack (when set upright) to the wider base. Will the mortar lines meet at the same exact spot after the dowel made its first full rotation? How will you know when to stop?

Maybe this doesn't matter in 1:160 and if there is a seam perhaps it can be turned away from the viewer on the structure. I like challenges but this one doesn't sound very cost effective. But then again we never really brought that part into the discussion. Do you have any idea how much each stack will cost the consumer by the time you have had each dowel individually tapered and individually lasered? Probably at this point it's all about "can it be done" vs "will anyone want to pay for this process".

[CacheJunction]

I'm still wondering how you can escape what I envision will be a very noticeable seam at the point where the first bricks lasered meet the last bricks lasered, running from the top of the stack (when set upright) to the wider base. Will the mortar lines meet at the same exact spot after the dowel made its first full rotation? How will you know when to stop?

In theory, yes, the horizontal mortar lines will meet. On the non-tapered dowel it was exact. Here is a closeup using an eye-loop for a macro lens. I played around with the sharpness and color to make the line more obvious. I had a hard time finding the seam, even with the loop. In N scale the seam is invisible from a normal viewing distance.



The rotary tool is remarkably accurate. Epilog makes a good product. Now, will the mortar lines still meet up when tapered? It should. And I just have to baby sit the laser until the pattern meets then stop it manually.

Maybe this doesn't matter in 1:160 and if there is a seam perhaps it can be turned away from the viewer on the structure. I like challenges but this one doesn't sound very cost effective. But then again we never really brought that part into the discussion. Do you have any idea how much each stack will cost the consumer by the time you have had each dowel individually tapered and individually lasered? Probably at this point it's all about "can it be done" vs "will anyone want to pay for this process".

Yes, the bricks are soooo small. And like you said I figured any visible seam can be put at the back of the display. But after paint and weathering, I don't anticipate anything being visible. Fingers crossed.

As far as the profit end of things, I haven't really thought about it. For now I am doing this as a modeler. I need a couple for my layout and I really want ones that I can be pleased with. If I think it is a quality product I can offer for sale, then I will begin posting results in the Product Discussion forum. Costs are minimal for now. $1 for materials, no cost for the tapering. So basically I would just charge for the engraving time. I would be very happy if I could keep the cost to $20 for a 12" stack.

But for now, like you said, its all about experiment and solving problems.

[TiVoPrince]

Incredible
its a bit like watching amateur golfers (or tennis players) pursue lofty goals for the love of the sport. While I hope that CacheJunction can somehow manage to make a few coins from this endeavour, its the passion that inspires. Respect to all posters, because about all I can contribute is a date with Mr. Wallet if a needed product appears. The stack is more impressive than I can put into words even if it does not quite fit my current plans...

[CacheJunction]

Thanks, TiVoPrince! OK...so I got some tapered dowels back from the lathe. They came out amazing:



I think the tall one needs to be tapered to a narrower top. But anyway here are the results of the brick engraving:





I used the envelope technique for each suggested by Peteski, calculating the ratio of the top to the bottom and sliced out a section to engrave. Looking at the results, I don't think the top looks too 'burnt' or overly-engraved like we had wondered about.

Here is a closeup of the top of the short stack:



I will paint them tomorrow and post the results, but so far the results seem encouraging.

Oh...and here are some pics of the process....before:



...and almost done:

[Kisatchie]

...OK...so I got some tapered dowels back from the lathe. They came out amazing:

Here is a closeup of the top of the short stack:

Wow, that looks fantastic. If only I had a layout to put some smokestacks on...


Hmm... I'd like a brick
banana. Do lasers work
on bananas...?

[peteski]

That looks excellent, although I would still like to see this done in acrylic. But I know.... 

Thanks for the photos of the rotary attachment. I thought it was more like a wood lathe. But this makes much more sense.  One of those things that makes perfect sense once you see it.  How many (and which) of the 4 wheels are driven?