best hidden product?

[glakedylan]

not sure this is the correct forum category, please feel free to move to one that is apropos...
will be posting in Z Scale also for obvious reasons:
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 I continue to hear about installing Z Scale MTL couplers on N Scale locomotives and rolling stock
because the size looks better (closer in size to prototypical?).

 I have done an array of internet searches, including the MTL site, Walthers site, several known
 hobby shop online companies, and the information about such and the seeming availability of
 the same is hard to come by.

 I ordered some of what was listed on Walthers site, but without any pictures I have no idea
 what they will look like and in which particular installations they will work.

 Where do people get these Z Scale couplers....what is their part #....are there ones other than
 the MTL offerings?

 Hoping to find what really seems to be hidden.

 Kindest regards
 Gary

[central.vermont]

Gary,

They are hard to find on MTL's site but they are there. It took me a couple of minutes to find them but they are listed under the On-Line store tab. Then click Z scale then Couplers. Here's the link to get you there.

http://www.micro-trains.com/pl-ZCouplers.php

The 905 is what most people use. It's the same as the 903 just assembled already.

Jon

[prdave]

Gary,
Here's another on-line source;
http://www.modeltrainstuff.com/Z-Scale-Couplers-Trucks-Wheelsets-s/2230.htm?searching=Y&sort=3&cat=2230&brand=Micro%2DTrains&show=30&page=1&search=%20905
-Dave

[C855B]

Try here:

  http://www.nscalesupply.com/MTL/MTL-ZscaleCouplers.html

, here:

  http://www.modeltrainstuff.com/Micro-trains-Z-905-Short-Shank-903-Couplers-p/mtl-00202021.htm

and here:

  http://www.featherrivertrains.com/cgi-bin/webstore/shop.cgi?ud=BwACBgwMBAUCABQUEhARHQIHBAMJBwYCBAgSEAAA&storeid=1&sortby=itemid&cols=1&c=search.htm&categories=130013-048003-078012

[glakedylan]

thanks so much to each one replying
it provided the information I needed and was able to find online
and place an order
it is very appreciated!
sincerely
Gary

[ednadolski]

... are there ones other than  the MTL offerings?

Hoping to find what really seems to be hidden.

Yes, there are others, in particular Gary and I have been using the Z-scale coupler made by Lee English, which works quite well and is very close to scale size:




Here it is next to an N-scale MT coupler:




Another key benefit is that the L.E. coupler does not use a centering spring, therefore it does not have the slinky/pogo effect.

It is very much a "hidden" product, in that it is not commonly marketed, but you can get more info here:

https://www.therailwire.net/forum/index.php?topic=21980.msg324793#msg324793
https://www.therailwire.net/forum/index.php?topic=21980.msg346515#msg346515

HTH,
Ed

[glakedylan]

thanks Ed! this information is very helpful.
appreciate your sharing it
sincerely
Gary

[robert3985]

Here are a few photos of MT N-scale couplers.  All of mine are MT 903's which I put together (much cheaper that way).

Photo #1 shows a comparison between the Z-scale coupler and a regular MT N-scale coupler:


Here's a shot of the assembled and weathered MT 903 on one of my superdetailed and modified Hallmark brass "UP Welded Cabooses" which, after much work, represents a U.P. CA-8 pretty well:


Although the MT 903's don't really "look" like prototype couplers, they comply to 5 out of 6 measurements I took on an actual coupler at the Utah State Railway Museum at Union Station in Ogden.  Just for kicks, I decided to see if one would couple up with a scale sized dummy coupler on the pilot of one of my brass U.P. Light Mikes.  Sure enough, it does and here's a photo of that lashup with two U.P. Light Mikes double-headed:


Here they are uncoupled:


I quit installing MT 903's on everything last year in anticipation of the NZT Coupler from David K. Smith and Charlie Vlk's new coupler that Arnold/Hornby has manufactured and is introducing on their new engine coming soon hopefully.  Now, I just install the MT 903's on some of my engines and on my superdetailed caboose kitbashes.

Here's a photo of one on the tender of one of my superdetailed Key Big Boys:


Although the details are not there on the MT 903's, they work well and are fully compatible with MT N-scale couplers.  They are almost DNO as far as size is concerned, which greatly improves the overall look of any model they're on.  However, because there's only one size of pocket, they don't fit everything.  Like the full-sized MT N-scale coupler, they also do the "slinky" motion-thing, which is a big negative IMO.

Another choice is the Z-scale Bowser Buckler, combined with Ed Nadolski's etched coupler pockets. Follow Ed's links for 'em. I think the main reason they're not widely promoted is Lee English.  Got me why he doesn't seem to want to promote them for N-scale.  Even though they appear to not be as prototypically sized as the 903's (they're much bigger),  I was gonna give 'em a try, but that also fell by the wayside in lieu of the NZT and Charlie Vlk couplers, which I hope will be scale-looking, scale sized and get rid of slinky motion.

Personally, I don't give a rat's weenie if they're compatible with any of the presently available knuckle couplers, just as I didn't care if the Kadee N-scale coupler worked with the Rapido coupler.  I just made a few transition cars with an MT coupler on one end, and a Rapido on the other until I threw my last Rapido coupler into the trash.

Cheerio!
Bob Gilmore

[ednadolski]

Bob, that scale/dummy coupler looks great.  Where did you get that?   Does anyone, anywhere make those?  they seem more scarce than the proverbial hen's teeth.

It would be soooo cool to put a scale coupler in a scale draft pocket in N, even if it were nonfunctional (other than the 0-5-0 method).   

Ed

[peteski]

Bob, that scale/dummy coupler looks great.  Where did you get that?   Does anyone, anywhere make those?  they seem more scarce than the proverbial hen's teeth.

It would be soooo cool to put a scale coupler in a scale draft pocket in N, even if it were nonfunctional (other than the 0-5-0 method).   

Ed

Some brass steam models (and even some of the older plastic ones, like Rivarossi/Con-Cor) included a properly scaled dummy front coupler.  I have never seen those offered for sale as a detail part.

[robert3985]

Bob, that scale/dummy coupler looks great.  Where did you get that?   Does anyone, anywhere make those?  they seem more scarce than the proverbial hen's teeth.

It would be soooo cool to put a scale coupler in a scale draft pocket in N, even if it were nonfunctional (other than the 0-5-0 method).   

Ed

Ed,

Those dummy couplers come already attached to the pilots of my Key U.P. Light 2-8-2's.  The stock paint is pretty thick, so I assume they're better detailed than that scale 2" of paint on them will allow to show through!

I agree with you completely.  There's definitely a dearth of dummy couplers in N-scale for whatever unknown reason, except for the old Unimates, which are gross looking as well as grossly out of scale.

Seems to me that scale looking dummy couplers in N-scale are an item that would sell okay, just like I think that since BLMA's mold for plastic brake hoses broke, there's a market for that too since the only other place to get them is Precision Scale (in plastic or brass)...with a $30 minimum order. 

But, I could be completely wrong.

[wcfn100]

Seems to me that scale looking dummy couplers in N-scale are an item that would sell okay,

I dropped that idea to GHQ 5-10 years ago.  I guess it didn't take. 

Jason

[robert3985]

I dropped that idea to GHQ 5-10 years ago.  I guess it didn't take. 

Jason

I guess not!  Frankly, I don't think the Britannia Metal/pewter GHQ uses would suffice since it's fairly soft.  I think the choices would be either an injection molded engineering plastic, or a brass investment casting.

Startup costs for the brass investment casting would be minimal since all that's needed is a properly sized master in a material hard enough and heat resistant enough for several vulcanized rubber molds to be taken from it.

Traditionally, that material has been hand machined/filed brass, but with the advent of Rapid Prototyping there are materials available which can be printed and are specifically formulated to be both detailed and hard/heat resistant enough to take a vulcanized rubber mold off of 'em.  So, a couple of dozen RP masters could be made...along with their spruing and vents, and molds taken off them...which would then be made to produce wax masters...to be invested, burned out and molten brass/bronze/nickel silver poured in the voids.

Although I've got all the equipment for doing lost wax castings, I would rather not fiddle with the casting part.  There's a local jewelry store/rock shop who will do a medium sized cannister for twenty bucks if I provide the metal and the wax masters.  He trees 'em up, and casts 'em, and does a very rudimentary disinvesting, and it's up to me to use my ultrasonic cleaner and disinvesting solution to clean the investment off.

So, it's a process indeed, and I'm not sure if I want them bad enough to invest (pun intended) the time and effort needed to produce them.

N-scale switchstands, on the other hand, ARE!

[glakedylan]

Ed...I see and have read the posts about the English couplers
I did not, however, see who makes them available and how to acquire them?
If for nothing other than to see what they are like and give them a try
I would be interested. Any more information available?
I tried to track them down through online search but no luck.
Thanks
Gary

[ednadolski]

Ed...I see and have read the posts about the English couplers
I did not, however, see who makes them available and how to acquire them?

The couplers are made by Lee English and he sells them directly.  You can contact him thru email:  bowser at bowser-trains.com   (Replace the ' at ' with '@')  Be sure to ask him for his latest pricing and terms.

If you have Exactrail cars, the couplers can fit in the body-mount pockets: https://www.therailwire.net/forum/index.php?topic=21980.msg287361#msg287361

If you need the etched brass coupler pockets, I have a few still available, details here: https://www.therailwire.net/forum/index.php?topic=21980.msg319095#msg319095

These links are all from the body-mount coupler thread.  My best advice is to take the time to read at least the last couple of pages, to look over the details for assembly, and post any questions there.

Ed