KATO F2s -- are these new or re-issued new paints?

[OldEastRR]

http://www.katousa.com/N/F2/index.html

The RR I model didn't run any of these, but the Q units look so pretty...

[jmlaboda]

They are not new... they were among some of the first F-units that Kato released.  But unlike the other Fs these units have not been reran much (if ever) since they were first released.  As for the roadnames, I do not believe that they have done these before.

[CBQ Fan]

These are all new paint schemes not offered before by Kato.  I believe there may be some similarities between these shells and an early 90's run of F3's.

[OldEastRR]

So these are late phase F2s, which are basically the same as phase I F3s? They're not in Spookshow's listings so I wasn't sure if these were new models.

[spookshow]

I don't know if this same shell has been used on a previous production run, but if it has this is the first time Kato has called it an "F2".

Cheers,
-Mark

[Chris333]

I think an early F3 could look just like a late F2 (or close).

[jmlaboda]

So these are late phase F2s, which are basically the same as phase I F3s? They're not in Spookshow's listings so I wasn't sure if these were new models.

As originally built the EMD F2s and Phase I F3s used the same carbody with the only real difference being internal (with both the EMD F3s being built side by side with some of the Phase I F3s... the F2s offered a match in horsepower by having 1350 h.p. iso as  to match the FTs, which in fact, was what a lot of uses used them for... splitting FT A-B-B-A sets into FTA-FTB-F2A sets.

Production of the F2a started in July 1946 t0 November 1946 while the F3 phase I production started in July 1945 and was not replaced with the phase IIa "chicken wire" design until February 1947.

Owners of the E3s were:

Atlantic & East Carolina - F2As 400 and 401

ACL - F2As 324 – 335 and F2Bs 324B – 335B

B&M - F2As 4224A – 4226A, 4250 – 4264 and F2Bs 4224B – 4226B

CB&Q - F2As 150A – 154A and 155C – 159C (some of the only F-units that had the typical freight pilot while the EMD F3s phase IIa units started the trend of having passenger pilots applied on other Fs)

CRIP -  F2As 38 – 49

M&StL - F2As 147A, 147C and F2B 147B

NYC - F2As 1604 and 1605

Southern Railway subsidiary Alabama Great Southern F2As 6700 and 6701, rebuilt by the SOU to F7 ratings in early-1951

Nacionales de Mexico - F2As 6200A – 6213A and F2Bs 6200B – 6213B

These should be revised shells based on what was originally offered with some minor details being altered, such as the dynamic brakes being removed for the ACL and RI units, an option that previously was not offered, and an updated chassis as used on more recent F-units.

An article on the Trains website also discusses these units in relationship to the F3 phase I units...
http://cs.trains.com/trn/f/741/t/218582.aspx

[SP-Wolf]

Looks like new tooling. The ACL locomotive on the turn table does not have dynamic brakes same for the Rock Island unit. Plus- they all appear to have the small number boards (The F3's have the large 45 deg.) . They also have 3 porthole windows (The F3's have 2).

Just a couple of observations,
Wolf

[Chris333]

Figures, I spent a bunch of time making older number boards for my F3's.

[jmlaboda]

Looks like new tooling. The ACL locomotive on the turn table does not have dynamic brakes same for the Rock Island unit. Plus- they all appear to have the small number boards (The F3's have the large 45 deg.) . They also have 3 porthole windows (The F3's have 2).

Again I will say that this is not new tooling, except for the roof which now provides for non-DB.  If I can find my late-1980s N-scale magazines I will scan the add and post it so those who do not know what is in N-scale's past will be educated.

I will say once again, when the F3s were offered they had two types, the Phase I F3s which had the small numberboards and three porthole windows and the Phase II which are the chicken wire units.  I just wish Spookshow had a photo of the earlier units so this can finally be shown but will try to find the ad...

[SP-Wolf]

Yup- not completely new-- revamped perhaps.

Here is some evidence.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/KATO-176-051-US-Diesel-EMD-F3A-Phase-1-Santa-Fe-N-scale-NIB-89-/141272222887

This model has most of the details of the new F2's. Except for the single headlight. And- I presume dynamic brakes.

Would Kato take previous tooling and modify it-? To remove and or add details-? Is the tooling modular-?  Now - I'm just curious.

And- in the grand scheme of things- does it really matter-?

Thanks,
Wolf

[peteski]

I will say once again, when the F3s were offered they had two types, the Phase I F3s which had the small numberboards and three porthole windows and the Phase II which are the chicken wire units.  I just wish Spookshow had a photo of the earlier units so this can finally be shown but will try to find the ad...

Yes, I remember both of those original F3 versions: small and large number boards, and chicken wire/no chicken wire. I don't remember the number of portholes, but 2 and 3 (depending on the version) sounds right. I think that I have both versions in my stash, but I don't feel like digging them out. 

However the mechanism is new (same as the last run of F3s).  There are also small modification to the interior of the shell.  The porthole "glass" has been modified to work with the modified chassis, and there are also small moldings under the roof to properly space the shall over the chassis.

[CBQ Fan]

Kato actually suggests using them with "other" manufacturers FT units to make ABA sets.

[u18b]

I think the number one difference is that I don't think Kato has offered the F3 with no dyn brakes before.

http://www.katousa.com/N/F2/106-0201_A.jpg

Otherwise it looks pretty much identical to this old F3- except for the dual/single headlight.

http://thumbs4.ebaystatic.com/d/l225/m/m6hqcrxyvwFDkE2tu1D9cgQ.jpg

Kato has made a lot of F3 variations.
Single headlight, dual
cickenwire up top, down to middle section, no chicken wire- F7 grills.
freight pilot/pass pilot
and now dyn brake/ no brakes.

Although, looking though F3s on the bay, I don't see any with this exact combination: small number boards, dual headlight, chicken wire top level only.

Now if they would just release a phase 4 (which sometimes people call an F5), then I would not have to kitbash this:
http://farm6.staticflickr.com/5179/5451027576_9d4f2c9fef_o.jpg

[wcfn100]

I think the number one difference is that I don't think Kato has offered the F3 with no dyn brakes before.

Yes, with the CB&Q release for the California Zephyr.

I don't think there is any new tooling for this particular release.  The first release of the Phase 1 F3's had a single headlight and dynamic brakes but at the time there were no other options.

Since then, Kato has done the dual headlight and non-dynamic (w/ Steam Generator) roof so they're just using those now with the three porthole sides.

As for a Phase 4 F3, that would require new tooling to get the low fans with the DB vent.


Jason