About to take Plunge...

[ljudice]

Thanks for all the feedback and encouragement!  I did download the mobile apps and actually they are not that bad...

This is a tough choice as everything I hear about NCE is positive - but there is something about the architecture of the Lenz system I find attractive...

One thing is that you can just buy the system unit and one of the computer interfaces and operate without their cabs.  I have no real use for a tethered
cab (I can use a PC for that) - and this brings the initial cost of the Lenz system down under $500.

I really wish NCE had a better website, they do a pretty bad job of explaining their system and this is what worries me - if their website is a mess,
is their system a mess once you dig into it.

On the other hand - nothing but high praise for it... 

Ugh....

[Scottl]

NCE manuals and user interface is very good and intuitive for me.  I'll echo what others have said and I have been very pleased with the quality and ease of use.

I have no experience with the Lenz system.  When I was in the market about five years ago, I found their controllers clunky and that was deciding factor for me.  Digitrax looked like a 1970s train set to me and the controllers looked like they were designed by a non-user, so I ruled them out.

It is all a matter of preference, of course.  They all have advantages and disadvantages.

[ljudice]

I think when you put the throttles/cabs in the equation, NCE comes way up on top.  Evaluating the underlying platform seems to favor Lenz.    So if the thought is be working mostly through JMRI/WiThrottle,  DecoderPro, etc....  Lenz looks like a cheaper,  possibly simpler solution.  But then again you lose the nice NCE wireless cab....

Arrgghh....

[Scottl]

Given how central your DCC system is to your operation experience, and your professed interest in using JMRI and other add ons, I would focus on that rather than the cost.  Money is money, but this is a key investment so I would choose independent of cost.  That does not necessarily push you in a particular direction, but I think the cost factor should be less critical for this particular investment.

[VonRyan]

If going with Lenz is the simpler solution, then I say go for it. Simplicity can be a blessing, especially since this hobby has plenty of ways to keep things in a constant state of complexity.

-Cody F.

[crrcoal]

Given how central your DCC system is to your operation experience, and your professed interest in using JMRI and other add ons, I would focus on that rather than the cost.  Money is money, but this is a key investment so I would choose independent of cost.  That does not necessarily push you in a particular direction, but I think the cost factor should be less critical for this particular investment.

+1

[ljudice]

I agree!   A big thing in NCE's favor is the network of people here using it! 

I'm kind of surprised, I have a simple question out to 2 Lenz dealers and no response yet...   Also the Lenz USA site's contact page is broken.

[ljudice]

[prepares for incoming]

Starting to look at Digitrax.....     I think the DCS100 (5A) system can be configured exactly the way I want.   It does not look like NCE can be bought without controllers, except for one
system that requires a booster. 

[ducks]

[peteski]

Thanks for all the feedback and encouragement!  I did download the mobile apps and actually they are not that bad...

This is a tough choice as everything I hear about NCE is positive - but there is something about the architecture of the Lenz system I find attractive...

One thing is that you can just buy the system unit and one of the computer interfaces and operate without their cabs.  I have no real use for a tethered
cab (I can use a PC for that) - and this brings the initial cost of the Lenz system down under $500.

I really wish NCE had a better website, they do a pretty bad job of explaining their system and this is what worries me - if their website is a mess,
is their system a mess once you dig into it.

On the other hand - nothing but high praise for it... 

Ugh....

I would not use a website design as an indication of a design of their product. Often websites are designed by outside designers.

Since CVP EasyDCC was mentioned, I also love that system. It is very good and intuitive to use, but it is not quite expandable like NCE or Digitrax (I can't believe I mentioned Digitrax). 

I would also not be too concerned about what everybody around you uses.  Be a rebel!    seriously, if this was a large club layout, then that would be a valid consideration , but for a home layout go with what you like. Nowadays, people can always use WiThrottles if you happen to run out of the physical units.

[ljudice]

I'm not so sure I agree on the website part...  Since I run several dozen websites for businesses,  I can tell the difference between organized businesses and disorganized businesses....    It takes someone in house to help the designer get the information out and if it's not there, it means there is a failure somewhere.

I agree on the rest and my bias of many years in IT product marketing and development plays a big role here. 

I am ruling out Lenz - the message I hear from some people today is that they are losing favor in North America and rapidly reducing support.  Everyone loves NCE - it's a big testament to them that they have such an enthusiastic userbase.  But the more I investigate this, the more I like Digitrax - for the al-la carte product set and strong support by various software stacks like JMRI, RR&CO and others.....

[reinhardtjh]

They all have their plusses and minuses.  I operate in a small group and we go round-robin to 3-4 layouts a month.  3 of the 4 are Digitrax, the other is Lenz.  We all do just fine on either.  We did operate once in 2011 on a fellow's layout that had NCE.  It wasn't a skull-splitting experience either.

Lou, Have you subscribed to the various Yahoo groups for the different systems?  I am a member at the Digitrax, NCE, Lenz and Easy-DCC groups.  They are all very helpful and you can get a pretty good idea of what the typical problems are for each system by watching the day to day flow of messages.

I happen to get along with the Digitrax controllers.  I agree they are somewhat arcane and un-user friendly, but I manage.  Having puzzled through many a computer manual since the mid 70's I haven't had a lot of trouble with their techno-babble manuals.  I like the networking structure of the Loconet and the overall philosophy of the system. 

A lot of smart people also like the NCE systems so they can't all be wrong.  You will find a lot of discussion on the Yahoo group lately on how bad their web site, but apparently steps are being undertaken to fix that.  I don't happen to like their polled structure for the cab bus.  It seems a little old-fashioned to me.  Another thing I don't like is when updates are required for command stations or handheld cabs, you have to get an upgrade chip from NCE.  Digitrax at least has downloadable firmware for the cabs.  Their command stations haven't needed a firmware upgrade in the past 15 years.  I believe Lenz is the same as NCE on upgrades.  Our one Lenz person has been hearing of V4 of the cab software which has been "coming real soon now" for about 4 years.  They are currently on 3.5 and 3.6.  He has no plans to upgrade past that if he doesn't have to.

The Lenz system works well, I think the overall design isn't too different than the NCE.  Like NCE, I think the cab bus is a form of RS-485 bus and cabs have assigned addresses. You have to watch out you don't overlap if you take them to a friend's layout.  What Lenz has going both for and against it is that it's designed and from in Germany.  Their focus is in European style model railroading which is different than ours.  Being imported it tends to cost more.

The Digitrax and the Lenz seem to be the most a-la carte systems.  You can pick any individual piece or buy a starter set.  The NCE system is mostly the same but IIRC if you buy their entry level system and then want to upgrade you lose a little bit.  The command station and cab are built into one unit. You can use it as just a cab, but you lose the command station/booster part.  I could be wrong.  With the Digitrax Zephyr, if you add a DCS100 command station, you can still use it as a 3A booster, or if you add a DB150 as a 5A booster you still use the Zephyr as a booster/command station.  Maybe minor nits since you're not exactly in a starter system situation, but something to consider.  It doesn't look like Lenz has an entry level set like NCE and Digitrax (unless you consider the Atlas rebranded set).

About using a command station without buying a cab - I'm not sure that the JMRI throttle will set the software switches inside a Digitrax command station.  I've never tried and am not currently in a position to do so.  I don't remember any conversation about it on either the JMRI or Digitrax groups.  I don't know if it is a problem for Lenz or NCE either.  If setting switches is all you want it for then you don't need the radio system and the most expensive Digitrax starter is on the order of $370 which includes the DT402 throttle.  You can then use JMRI and wireless phones for the rest.  A similar NCE system would be around $430. Lenz is around $350.  All these must have a power supply and computer interface added.

Also, despite what Peteski says about being a rebel, there are advantages to having at least one fellow NCE, Digitrax, Lenz user nearby.  There will be WTF moments as you install your system and get acclimated  to it. So having another perspective on what the manuals mean will help.  Also having someone you can go to and see if the same thing happens on their system and other testing scenarios.  So do take that into consideration.

[peteski]

Also, despite what Peteski says about being a rebel, there are advantages to having at least one fellow NCE, Digitrax, Lenz user nearby.  There will be WTF moments as you install your system and get acclimated  to it. So having another perspective on what the manuals mean will help.  Also having someone you can go to and see if the same thing happens on their system and other testing scenarios.  So do take that into consideration.

Of course it is helpful to have a knowledgeable person around who uses the same DCC system.  But nowadays, with all the online forums, one can get pretty good (and quick) help from a huge group of users of any system worldwide.  They are as close to you as your computer keyboard (or a touch screen).    No need to think "I'll get a Digitrax system because Fred and Mike down the road own Digitrax".

[davefoxx]

Yeah, but if Fred and Mike use the same DCC system, then you can take your controller with you (or they bring theirs to your layout) for ops sessions.  Saves big money for the host.

DFF

[ljudice]

Ordered!   I will post photos when it's running!!!!

[crrcoal]

Awww whose system did you chose????? Inquiring minds gotta know!!