Best clear coat from a rattle can? Best meaning smooth finish

[Philip H]

some of this is comfort with product, some of it is availability.  None of the LHS that I have within an hour's drive have Vallejo; one has Humbrol; all have some form of Testors.  Pledge with Future (which is just Future rebranded) is readily available, but there's no off market Dullcoat equivalent (the excellent dulling references up-thread are new to me, and somewhat intriguing).  SO we use both what we have, and what we know.

[Scottl]

There are many artists products for matte finishes.  Matte medium is probably well known to many and I have always wondered if it could be thinned for airbrushing?  It is routinely thinned with water for securing scenery and ballast. 

[HuskerN]

Peteski,

HuskerN,
I thought that when I posted:
Here is the scoop on Future: a complete and illustrated  reference http://www.swannysmodels.com/TheCompleteFuture.html
it would be understood that when someone sees a URL, they would click on it. That is a basic forum Internet functionality.  Even if it is not a clickable link, copying/pasting the URL into a browser would have got you to that website.

Sorry that I wasn't clear enough. 

I was totally being sarcastic.     Your posting was pretty funny, as I obviously missed your guidance about where to find more info via the link in your original posting. 

thanks for the info, it is greatly appreciated.  Learning something everyday.

HuskerN

[Pete Steinmetz]

There are many artists products for matte finishes.  Matte medium is probably well known to many and I have always wondered if it could be thinned for airbrushing?  It is routinely thinned with water for securing scenery and ballast.

Isn't Matte Medium more a glue than a coating?  I'm not sure I would want to spray glue through my airbrush.  Seems like cleanup would be a challenge.

[kalbert]

Matte medium is pretty much really thin glue, but I wouldn't think cleanup to be any different than cleaning paint up. Just rinse it out like normal? I still wouldn't use it as a clear coat though I don't think, there's better ways to get a matte finish.

Tamiya flat base works very well for knocking down the Future shine. It won't get dullcoat flat, but pretty close to it.

Something I have not tried, but is on my list of "what if" is to try tinting the future with food coloring or something to try and make candies for model cars. Along that same line would be using it as a carrier/thinning agent for whites & grays for fading freight cars. I've had trouble spraying very thin washes, the paint is just to thin to work right at some point. I'm thinking using Future to keep it all together might be a slick trick.

[Philip H]

thin some craft paints with Future or with window washer fluid.  Gary Hinshaw has a thread on this topic in the Best Of section.

[GaryHinshaw]

I think gloss and matte media are intended to be used as paint extenders and/or over coats:

http://www.dickblick.com/products/liquitex-gloss-and-matte-mediums/

It's there use as a scenery glue that is non-standard.   The problem I have with them for clear coating is that they tend to be pretty thick and it can take some time to work all the lumps out when thinning. Pre-thinned preparations are available though.

I've never tried a fade coat thinned with Future, but it might work if you're after a glossy fade.  I usually add a flat finish to the brew.

As a total aside on fading, I found a nice line of pre-thinned transparent acrylic paints that are specifically prepared for airbrushing:

http://www.goldenpaints.com/products/color/airbrush/airbru1.php

Sadly they don't offer a zinc white in this line, but they do have a few oxide and umber hues (bottom row of the colour table), and they go on beautifully.

-gfh

[bbussey]

I kitbashed a replica of my mother's Mitsubishi Eclipse a few years ago for her birthday.  Upon recommendation from one of my car-buff buddies, I painted the car yellow and then candy maroon to get the proper burnt orange metallic color.  Then, based on his recommendation, I dipped the car body and hood in Future and put the parts on a third-hand at an angle for the extra to run off.  I was stunned, as the model looked like showroom-quality paint after the Future dried.  I thought I had photos archived, but I can't find them.  I'll be at my folks tomorrow.  I'll snap some photos of the model and post them later this weekend.

I was able to get some quick pics of the model today — not the best, but they show basically what the finish looks like on a 1:48 1:43 car model dipped in Future.  The paint was a matte candy raspberry sprayed over yellow enamel.  The paint didn't "pop" or match the factory Sunburnt Orange until Future was applied.









Since HuskerN's original inquiry (I believe) was based on how to make paint pop on vehicles, as opposed to clear-coating railroad rolling stock models, dipping in Future is absolutely the way to go.

I haven't done it yet with N scale vehicles, but eventually I will go through this process when trying to elevate the quality of vehicles being transported on open-frame auto racks.
 

[peteski]

Bryan,
is that Eclipse really 1:48 scale or 1:43?  It looks nice!  My GF had a 1999 Eclipse GS-T convertible (5-speed stick-shift). That was a fun ride!

I also build automotive models, where glossy paint jobs are desired.  I used Testors clear enamel on this one (not Glosscote).

S-10_Front.JPG

However, I'm surprised than nobody has chimed in here yet about not using very glossy finish in N scale vehicles. Many modelers think that mirror-like paint on N scale vehicles doesn't look "right" (or that it doesn't look in-scale).  Personally, if the paint is applied in a very thin layer, I don't see a problem with glossy N scale vehicles (if they represent new cars).  But to me, even semi-gloss finish still looks good.  For example, my N scale FedEx truck was finished with Accupaints and then oversprayed with my own formula of semi-gloss (mixture of Dullcote and Glosscote). I think that finish looks  realistic.


FrontLow.jpg

[HuskerN]

thanks for the examples guys,

I guess I am just going to have to try this myself and see how it works.  I like the dipping technique as it sounds like a very smooth coat can be achieved without using an airbrush or trying to get a fine spray out of a rattle can. 

Here is a very specific project that I need to do in the very near future.  I have a single axle Mack Vision arriving on Tuesday from Shapeways that I plan to pair up with a set of Trainworx 28' pup trailers.  I have a set of custom UPS decals for the entire set.  What would be the preferred method here?  I don't mind the idea of a glossy tractor cab, but the trailers should probably be flat or semi-gloss?  So after I spray the brown on the tractor, would I dip the entire tractor trailer set in future, then apply decals, then dip the tractor and spray the trailers with dullcoat?  I would probably exempt the tires and wheels from the future dip as I wouldn't want them glossy.

I know this is a very specific question, but I would like to get some actual application examples from those that know this stuff well.  The hardest part about having options for achieving similar results, is that it is hard to choose which option to try.

HuskerN

[bbussey]

On your FUD trucks, do you have the body and chassis separate or are they rendered as one physical part?  You are correct in all of your assumptions.  You only want to Future-dip the cab body and you don't want to get it on the wheels and other non-body details.  Dullcote on the trailers.  And your usual flat or matte finish on the wheels.  The only place where I would deviate from your assumptions is: if the brown paint used for the cab (and aluminum paint used for the trailers) is a gloss finish, I would just decal directly on that and set them with MicroSet/MicroSol or Solvaset.  The Future dip (on the cab) and Dullcote (on the trailers) will hide the decal film entirely.

An alternate to dipping (if the truck model is one physical FUD part) is to use an eye-dropper or modeling syringe filled with Future to apply to specific areas of the model.  Apply in abundance and let the excess run off into a small plastic container, so it can be captured and re-used.  I've done that as well to apply Future to parts of a model.  If you are pleased with the finished results, in the future (no pun intended) it may be best to design your truck cabs as two separate parts so that you can paint/dip the bodies.

[peteski]

thanks for the examples guys,

I guess I am just going to have to try this myself and see how it works.  I like the dipping technique as it sounds like a very smooth coat can be achieved without using an airbrush or trying to get a fine spray out of a rattle can. 

...
What would be the preferred method here?  I don't mind the idea of a glossy tractor cab, but the trailers should probably be flat or semi-gloss?  So after I spray the brown on the tractor, would I dip the entire tractor trailer set in future, then apply decals, then dip the tractor and spray the trailers with dullcoat?  I would probably exempt the tires and wheels from the future dip as I wouldn't want them glossy.

First of all (I know, based on this thread's title,  that it is not what you want to hear),  since you have made road vehicles a big part of your N scale hobby, I would highly recommend that you consider using an airbrush. After all, painting N scale vehicles with a rattle can is like trying to water potted plants with a wide-open fire hose!  Dipping in Future also has its own set of issues.

An airbrush is like a precision and infinitely-adjustable mini spray can nozzle, which can spray a wide range of paints (even your own custom mixes).  It really makes painting these miniature models so much easier.

I use a single action internal-mix airbrush (Badger 200), and it is really easy to handle and to clean. Usually the cleaning part is what makes people leery of using airbrushes.  But I just spray some lacquer cleaner through my airbrush. I only do a complete cleaning (with disassembly) about once a year.

Here is a quick rundown on decal application questions:
While some people swear that they have no problems applying decals to flat finishes, the recommendation is to apply them to a glossy or semi-glossy surfaces. That pretty much assures that the application will be trouble free.  Military modelers who use flat paints often use a coat of Future (or other clear gloss paints) over the flat paint as a base for applying decals.

Once the decal is applied and dry, sealing it makes the clear film blend with the surrounding surface, plys it protect the decal. Again, Future can be used or any other clear coat.

Here again is the photo of the N scale FedEx truck.  It was painted with semi-gloss Accupaint, decal was applied directly to it, then it was sealed with a a semi-gloss clear mix of Testors Dull and Glosscote.  All airbrushed.

FrontLow.jpg

Here is Ford Model T.  It is a photoetched brass kit. The bare brass (no primer) was airbrushed with Scalecoat (not Scalecoat II) black. It has a high-gloss finish.  I try to finish my models (especially small N scale models) with the minimal number of coats of paint. Too many layers of paint hide details.

15FordT_04_800.JPG

This Knox fire engine is also a photoetched brass kit. IIRC, I airbrushed with it Accupaint light gray primer and ATSF red.  I needed to use primer because the red paint doesn't cover well. Pinstripe decals were applied and the model was airbrushed with Testors Glosscote.

KnoxFireEngine_Top.JPG

[Scottl]

 

Fantastic painting jobs.  You must have steady hands for the detail!

[peteski]

Fantastic painting jobs.  You must have steady hands for the detail!

Thanks Scott. Yes steady hand is sort of a pre-requisite for this type of work. I developed an essential tremor about 10 years ago, but thankfully I'm on a medication which pretty much takes care of the problem. There are days when my hands are unsteady, but most of the time I'm able to do miniature work.

[HuskerN]

Bryan, yes my truck models are all pretty much a separate cab, frame, and wheels making them very versatile.  So I could imagine dipping just the cabs very easily. 

I do have an airbrush and use it a lot, especially for weathering.  With vehicles I found it much easier to paint with cans since I was changing colors so often, and for such a small amount of actual painting between changes.  I am also in a cold climate now, and am moved indoors until spring.  So being able to run out to my garage with a warm can of paint, spray, and come back inside is what I would like to do. 

I have a lot of great info and some great examples now, so it sounds like I just need to try them myself and find what works best for me.

HuskerN