BNSF Orange: Prototype Variations

[tehachapifan]

I started a thread on the Prototype Research & Photos page where comparison photos showing variations between shades of BNSF orange appear in the same photo (obvious serious fading excluded as the  presumed reason). So, until NRMA comes out with a standard on paint shades (ha!), this may help make it all OK.  Actually, maybe everyone got it right!

https://www.therailwire.net/forum/index.php?topic=31053.0

[arbomambo]

Personally...
 I just don't agree with the argument put forth here (and on every other modelling forum-including airplane-armor-etc...) about having every unit match, exactly, in tint and shade-hue...There's just no prototype for it...shades vary for all kinds of reasons...even between units painted in the same shop, same day, same class, etc....
To me, if the shades of colors are remotely close, then I give it a big thumbs up!...I draw the line when colors are off by a significant degree.
I have absolutely no issue with a FVM and a KATO BNSF orange unit sitting side-by-side in a modern consist in fact, in my opinion, it lends more realism to the 'scene'
 the big uproar over the KATO City of Los Angeles passenger car and locomotive release is a case in point...the Armor yellow didn't match, exactly, the previous releases of KATO UP equipment-the COL paint had a lean toward the orange in the armor yellow.. I welcomed the diversity...the new cars have a deeper look to them...in fact I would mix older colored cars with the new to actually portray a typical consist.
  All this being said, the nice thing about any interest or hobby is that the hobbyist has the freedom to enjoy his hobby the way HE wants, for whatever reason, and whatever his motivation! If a modeller wants his equipment to be perfectly matched in color and condition, then that is HIS choice and pleasure.
I very much appreciate those who research equipment, color, details, etc., in the interest of modelling accuracy-I'm one of them, but I also enjoy modelling 'situational' accuracy...and that means, to me, modelling differences in paint and weathering between locomotives and rolling stock within the same railroad and even the same class.
 A 4 unit ATSF LABC set of Warbonnet F's is, genrally, going to fade and weather the same, during the years when they were kept together as a dedicated set....yet, an LABC set assigned to Winslow to LA, is going to weather differently than an LABC set assigned to Chicago-Kansas City.
 Again, these are the things I enjoy modelling, and I appreciate the research and info that points out changes in different manufacturers' interpretation of Company colors, but I welcome these little differences as a nice little nod to the 'real world'
Respectfully,
~Bruce

[tehachapifan]

Wait...we're on the same page and are in agreement, right?

[arbomambo]

absolutely!

[Rossford Yard]

I Have heard the story from some of my inside the BNSF friends that when the H2 came out, two major contractors had the paint jobs, and one used a paint that didn't age well.  Thus, the two (at least) shades of orange.

[ljudice]

I agree 1000% on the "matching paint is probably not even prototypical"  ---- but....

It's also not prototypical for all Conrail GP38-2's to be darker than all CR GP40-2's. 

So given the fact that a random mixture is impossible - without painting everything yourself, it is FAR better for
everything to just MATCH.

Kato somehow manages to match stuff all the time.  And BTW, as I have pointed out about a dozen times here
and elsewhere, the UP COLA matches the LATE UP paint used on the AC4400 and later models.  Whether it's
prototypical or not I have no idea, but Kato stuff since the AC4400 all matches - and everything before the AC4400
all matches.  Therefore the problem is that two say UP SD90MAC's in the same number range that were not repainted
are un-protypically not matching.

However - beauty is in the eye of the beholder and more power to people who don't get hung up on this issue!

- lou

[randgust]

I Have heard the story from some of my inside the BNSF friends that when the H2 came out, two major contractors had the paint jobs, and one used a paint that didn't age well.  Thus, the two (at least) shades of orange.

Absolutely true.   Some were painted at Erie and another by a now-defunct contractor that turned out to be a wholly-owned subsidiary of a competing paint company that declared bankruptcy as soon as all the warranty repaints started to come back.   Erie had to repaint all the warranty returns.   The contractor is still an empty lot today.   Those were the infamous "peaches". 

That's not particularly common.  I think that 'most' paint is at least attempted to be consistent...but.... never forget where they are painted, either.   A locomotive painted in the shops, or repainted in the company shops, is far more likely to be consistent than a new delivery.  I've been in the CSXT Huntington paint shop, and trust me, you'll never see an odd shade of Dark Future Blue, not out of there.  Maybe out of GE or EMD, but not there. 

And some shop work is better than others.   I've noticed that Cleburne CF7's seemed to weather horribly; whether it was due to the primer, lack of a clearcoat...something...man, did that yellow fade and the blue rust. 

I've had to write paint specs for locomotives and the clearcoat for a lot of paints is just critical for UV protection and a lot of extra cost.  Reds in particular don't hold well without it.   And I've also had manufacturers insist on training applicators before they would warranty the product.

If you want to see the nicest steam locomotive paint you've ever seen in your entire life, go to Fort Madison and look at the 4-8-4 there (2913?) as that's the home of the DuPont Imron plant and they paint it and keep it up.  Their name is on it on a bronze plaque in front of it.  So if it's the right paint, put on right, and clearcoated, it's a whole different animal.

[ednadolski]

Kato somehow manages to match stuff all the time.

Hope I'm not going too far off-topic....   Does anyone know of any particular model paints (or custom-mix recipes) for matching the Kato BNSF orange?   I'm interested in matching the factory tone, for painting modeler-installed aftermarket details such as grabirons and sunshades.

(I'm also interested in matching Kato's other BNSF heritage tones, i.e., the yellow, green, and silver.)

Thanks in advance,
Ed

[GaryHinshaw]

Well, since this thread is in the N scale section, I'll post my observations about the state of BNSF orange in N scale and save the prototype photos for the other thread.   

I have BNSF GEVOs from Kato and FVM (two different runs of the latter) and for my money, I think Kato nailed the orange and FVM failed on both runs.  Sadly, my camera seems to be incapable of capturing the impression I get with my own eyes, so I have attempted to give a sense of how different the models appear to me in this set of swatches:



I know this is a very questionable way to convey color information, but on my screen this captures the perception I have in person pretty well, especially at high screen brightness.   I completely agree that there are a wide range of saturation levels in the prototype, but I have personally never seen units with the darkness of FVM I or the redness (and extreme saturation) of FVM II.  (I'm not trying to convince anyone that I am "right", just trying to convey how I perceive it.)

Happily, I just received my FVM GP60B in BNSF HI and I am very pleased with the orange in that model.  Well done Matt!  I hope a run of FVM GEVOs is in the offing with that paint.

[GaryHinshaw]

Hope I'm not going too far off-topic....   Does anyone know of any particular model paints (or custom-mix recipes) for matching the Kato BNSF orange?   I'm interested in matching the factory tone, for painting modeler-installed aftermarket details such as grabirons and sunshades.

(I'm also interested in matching Kato's other BNSF heritage tones, i.e., the yellow, green, and silver.)

Thanks in advance,
Ed

I was pretty happy with the match I got when I touched up this 70MAC after installing the grab irons:



(a project that has stalled out for over 3 years now, still awaiting new handrails...  ).   I was able to locate this slightly ambiguous entry about the paint from this post:

The touch up paint is all Polly Scale.  For the green I got lucky: stock BNSF Heritage Green (it could have been a wee bit darker).  For the orange, I mixed a custom color but, alas, I didn't write it down!  I'm pretty sure it was about 2/3 BNSF Heritage Orange, and 1/3 GTW Morency Orange, which is a more intense orange.  In both colors, I added a dash of Future floor polish to give it some gloss (and thin it slightly).

Good luck finding Polly Scale paint any more though...   

-gfh

[Sokramiketes]

Kato somehow manages to match stuff all the time. 

- lou

Well they might match paint from run to run but they sure can't match handrails to body colors.  The NS Heritage series is awful.

FVM hasn't been trying to match the orange on every run.  A couple vocal modelers have been giving him a hard time so each model has had a new orange.  I prefer the Kato orange just because it looks fresh and happy.  But there are photos out there of darker and redder oranges too.  I just don't think they pop as well for a factory issued model.  The GP60's are close!

[conrailthomas519]

I can see the point if one was modeling brand new paint (fresh out of the shops).  As mentioned previously even the shops paint mix batches are slightly different.
Shortly after that everything changes to the paint, as units become dirty and weathered from the enviroment and road usage, the color matching issues seem to become irrelevent. Lou I agree.
Thoughts are based on reviewing the posted railpicture.net photos of the various BNSF pumpkins.