Author Topic: Revealed- All new brass loco not seen before  (Read 6482 times)

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u18b

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Revealed- All new brass loco not seen before
« on: October 12, 2013, 06:18:55 PM »
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(when clicking on a photo from my site, be patient.  Photos are large.)

Well, I'm finally excited to display my wonderful discovery of a brand new brass loco of an American prototype that just may never have been seen outside of Japan.

As most of you know, I'm working on a book on Kumata brass in n scale.  I've tried to get my hands on every brass loco Kumata ever made in N scale- and some of you on this board helped.  Thank you again.  I almost succeeded.  The only significant loco I have not seen is the NJ Brass Silverliner made for Reading and Pennsy.  (if anyone can help, please let me know).

So a while back, I contacted Kumata and made an astonishing discovery.  The president of the company corresponded with me and I found that about 2000, Kumata released an all new brass EP-2 class Bipolar.

Now, don't stop reading.  I know NJ Brass brought out the Bipolar in 1983, but I'm telling you this is NOT just a re-release of the NJ model.  This is an almost 100% new model.

About the NJ model.  To be honest, it is not that great of a model.  They were one of the very first to introduce a brass model back in the 80s- so I give them credit, and mean no disrespect for their accomplishment.   But the reality is- the model has some serious problems.

1.  I have already documented how poorly they run.  The Bipolar model is really two small locomotives drawbared together by the boiler room in the middle.  Each half (or Cab, as I call it with a capital C) has only two axles that are geared.  Also, weight distribution is seriously flawed.  Usually, they just don't pull very much.

With major renovation, I was successful in vastly improving the Ep-2 sample someone let me borrow.

2.  While the shell is beautiful, NJ made a pretty serious compromise to save money.  If you are knowledgeable about the EP-2 prototype as I now am, you would catch something that many people less knowledgeable miss.  On the prototype, the hoods are NOT the same.  There is what we might call the “busy end” or the B end and then there is a cleaner A end.  On the B end, there is a flat sheet metal covering on the side in front of the cab.  NJ modeled this-- but their model has identical cabs to save money. That extended portion should NOT be on the A end.

As-delivered, A end facing”  http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/0/09/MILW_Bi-Polar.jpg

Here is the NJ Custom Brass model:  http://www.spookshow.net/files/njep2.jpg

3.  The third problem is time period for prototypical accuracy.   The CMStP&P started modifying their EP-2s soon after getting them arrived in December 1919 and early 1920).  At first, there was no side bump on the B end described above.  They made the following changes from the es-delivered state.
Added the sheet metal bump on the B end to protect parts from the elements.
Added coils to the roof to get them out of the hot cab.
Added sand boxes to the noses.
Most of these changes were in place by 1921-1922.

So the point is, the NJ model is closest to the As-delivered appearance.  And that “look” was only good for 1-2 years!  So the NJ model is not really accurate for MOST of the EP-2s active duty life (1921-1953).

Enter Kumata of Japan.  KMT had been commissioned to make EP-2 in larger scales.  As you would imagine, the HO and O scale versions had more detail.

Well, in 2003, Kumata consulted their old plans and created all new EP-2s in three versions.

These new models:
--Have a smaller Mashima open framed 5-pole motor.
--Have all 4 axles on the power truck geared (not just two).  This cures the balance problem of the NJ version.
--Have many more details than the NJ version.
--Re-use only a few of the original NJ parts (for example the side frames are the same).
--The hoods are prototypically different between A end and B end.  So since the A end and B end are different and there are 3 models, that means there are SIX different shells.  And there are two different walkways.
--The boiler room is changed to be prototypically accurate.  When delivered, there was a door and steps up the side.  The railroad closed up the door and steps fairly quickly.
--Have fine scale wheels.  I'm guessing these new models could possibly run on code 40 track.
--Have extra weight.  The original NJ models were light and had terrible traction.  NJ and KMT came up with a lead casting for the cab areas and sold them later.  These new models have the weights.
--have directional operating headlights

Details!

Nose with sandboxes: http://u18b.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/03/DSC04016.jpg

Sparker: http://u18b.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/03/Sparker-DSC03989.jpg

Open coil: http://u18b.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/03/open-coil-DSC03995.jpg

Covered coil: http://u18b.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/03/covered-coil-DSC03992.jpg



Here are the shell variations.

Version 1:  Railroad Fair loco.
The first is a pretty accurate rendering of the 1949 Chicago Railroad Fair locomotive.  Milw Road was just getting going on the Olympian Hiawatha and they showed off a new paint scheme for this show.
There are no sand boxes (the railroad took them off for some reason).
The cooling coils on the roof and all the details are pretty accurate.  The only thing missing is the diesel horn.  Milw installed it on the cab- and it is easy to miss if you don't know where to look.

Prototype:  http://www.railarchive.net/rrfair/rrfair4915.jpg

Model left side:
http://u18b.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/03/Ver1-left-DSC04001.jpg

Model right side:
http://u18b.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/03/Ver1-right-DSC04004.jpg



Version 2: Late black/Experimental/and Railroad Fair scheme
The second is primarily identified by sand boxes on the noses, and a diesel horn on the A end.  This model would be appropriate for:
The later black schemes (around when the road numbers were first changed from 1025x to E-x.
The early Hiawatha locos.

Prototype: 
Later black:   http://earthseaimagery.com/images/E-4_in_tacoma_copy.jpg

Experimental scheme:  http://www.microcosmologist.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2012/05/Milwaukee-Road-Bipolar-E1-in-the-experimental-Olympian-Hiawatha-paint-scheme.jpg

Early hiawatha scheme- 5 stripe.  http://www.microcosmologist.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2012/06/Milwaukee-Road-Bipolar-at-Seattle-Union-Station-1950s.jpg

Model left side:
http://u18b.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/03/Ver2-left-DSC04013.jpg


Model right side:
http://u18b.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/03/Ver2-right-DSC04010.jpg




Version 3: “Cigar band” Hiawatha- pre-1953.
The last version is identified by sand boxes on the nose, a horn on the hood, and more importantly, the nose doors windows being welded over with sheet metal.  Milw Rd started closing these doors around the time they went to the later Hiawatha scheme.

Prototype: 
Cigar band:  http://earthseaimagery.com/images/bipolar_oly_hiawatha_in_puyallup_valley_1953_fbt.jpg

http://earthseaimagery.com/images/E-4_possibly_in_seattle.jpg


Model right side:
http://u18b.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/03/Ver3-right-DSC04025.jpg

Welded door:
http://u18b.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/03/Welded-door-DSC04028.jpg


The 1953 re-built EP-2s were streamlined and look very different.  The headlight went from looking like it belonged on a steam loco to a more diesel-like casing which was lower.  The coils on the roof were cleaned up.  Skirting was applied.  Ladders and railing is different.  In short, no N scale model correctly exists for this version.

Prototype: 
Streamlined ver: http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b97/racersolo/Flyer%20Marx/milw-e2ajt.jpg


Kumata only made 50 of these models in these three variations.  Of these 50, 35 were painted and Ready to Run (RTR).  They painted them (we assume about 12 each) in Black, early Hiawatha/Railroad Fair and late Hiawatha/Cigar band.  The remaining 15 were unfinished kits which the modeler would assemble himself.

These were made originally for the Japanese market.  Later, they planned to sell them overseas, but never did.

How do they run?  Better than the NJ version as stock units.  Still not A+ but fairly good.

Here is a shot of the vestibule.  You can see that KMT did not use the jumper wire to connect the cabs.  Also, you can see the extra gears.
http://u18b.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/03/clean-vestibule-DSC04034.jpg


Actually, I'm on a project to redesign the drive train and improve upon what KMT did.  But that is for another post.

Ron Bearden
« Last Edit: March 06, 2024, 01:59:19 PM by u18b »
Ron Bearden
CSX N scale Archivist
http://u18b.com

"All get what they want-- not all like what they get."  Aslan the Lion in the Chronicles of Narnia by C.S.Lewis.

robert3985

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Re: Revealed- All new brass loco not seen before
« Reply #1 on: October 12, 2013, 06:49:43 PM »
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Interesting read.  My model train buddy Bob Gerald in SLC would love to have a couple of these models for sure to compliment his Little Joe's.

u18b

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Re: Revealed- All new brass loco not seen before
« Reply #2 on: October 12, 2013, 07:46:49 PM »
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I should have also mentioned-  when tuned and balanced, I have gotten this new model to pull about 12 or 13 passenger cars-- which is what the prototype pulled on the Olympian Hiawatha.
Ron Bearden
CSX N scale Archivist
http://u18b.com

"All get what they want-- not all like what they get."  Aslan the Lion in the Chronicles of Narnia by C.S.Lewis.

bbussey

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Re: Revealed- All new brass loco not seen before
« Reply #3 on: October 27, 2013, 08:52:46 PM »
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Ron, how did you get your hands on one of these little gems?
Bryan Busséy
NHRHTA #2246
NSE #1117
www.bbussey.net


peteski

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Re: Revealed- All new brass loco not seen before
« Reply #4 on: October 27, 2013, 09:47:43 PM »
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Ron, how did you get your hands on one of these little gems?

+1
BTW, looking at those nice looking pantographs reminded me: Bryan, whatever happened to your project to convert Kato GG1 pantos to sprung working units?
. . . 42 . . .

u18b

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Re: Revealed- All new brass loco not seen before
« Reply #5 on: October 27, 2013, 10:34:57 PM »
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Ron, how did you get your hands on one of these little gems?

Directly from KMT in Japan.  They don't have any more. 

Ron Bearden
CSX N scale Archivist
http://u18b.com

"All get what they want-- not all like what they get."  Aslan the Lion in the Chronicles of Narnia by C.S.Lewis.

u18b

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Re: Revealed- All new brass loco not seen before
« Reply #6 on: October 27, 2013, 11:12:15 PM »
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Peteski,

Not to take away from Bryan's answer for the GG1...

But I had the same problem on these brass EP-2s.

Both the NJ brass 83 version and this new version use the same pantographs which are NOT sprung.  That is really too bad for such a nice model.

Well, I have been figuring a way to spring them and I'll cover that in the clinic.
Ron Bearden
CSX N scale Archivist
http://u18b.com

"All get what they want-- not all like what they get."  Aslan the Lion in the Chronicles of Narnia by C.S.Lewis.

eja

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Re: Revealed- All new brass loco not seen before
« Reply #7 on: October 28, 2013, 12:18:07 AM »
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Ex'cuse me ... is this not advertising ?

Ian MacMillan

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Re: Revealed- All new brass loco not seen before
« Reply #8 on: October 28, 2013, 12:54:16 AM »
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Ex'cuse me ... is this not advertising ?

 :?
I WANNA SEE THE BOAT MOVIE!

Yes... I'm in N... Also HO and 1:1

peteski

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Re: Revealed- All new brass loco not seen before
« Reply #9 on: October 28, 2013, 01:36:08 AM »
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Peteski,

Not to take away from Bryan's answer for the GG1...

But I had the same problem on these brass EP-2s.

Both the NJ brass 83 version and this new version use the same pantographs which are NOT sprung.  That is really too bad for such a nice model.

Well, I have been figuring a way to spring them and I'll cover that in the clinic.

No problem at all (after all, my question was OT).  ;) It is never a bad thing to learn new way to make things work properly (whether GG1 or the on-topic EP-2).
. . . 42 . . .

bbussey

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Re: Revealed- All new brass loco not seen before
« Reply #10 on: October 28, 2013, 01:49:08 AM »
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+1
BTW, looking at those nice looking pantographs reminded me: Bryan, whatever happened to your project to convert Kato GG1 pantos to sprung working units?

No spare funds to spend on lower-priority R&D projects at this time.
Bryan Busséy
NHRHTA #2246
NSE #1117
www.bbussey.net