Conrail Windsor St Yard (York PA) Engineering Report

[Ed Kapuscinski]

That's it EXACTLY, actually.

[wm3798]

That closet door was never an impediment to my design, or to my ops.  And you'll be pleased to know that it's still there even though I've been gone for almost four years!

And if I hadn't kept it, the yard wouldn't have fit into Ed's cellar with an inch to spare...

Okay... by way of example, let's return to Kevin's Winston-Salem Southbound...  Here is the scenic treatment going in to the bottom of his helix...

And backing up for a longer view:


And the view coming out at the top:


The scenes represent a long stretch of track that runs through High Rock Lake, so there's plenty of run time to get through the "marsh"... there's continuity to the flow of the scenery, but there's a nice addition to the run time.

You could put Cockeysville at the upper outlet for switching the quarry and maybe a foob industry or two, or just show the old York Road Underpass, which is a landmark us older dudes would appreciate. (Pretty sure it was still there in 1985) then turn the corner into some suburbs, the Beltway, and Lake Roland before diving through the wall into Baltimore Staging.  And apart from the twisty bits, it would all be a nice level single track line... 

If that don't fog up your hipster glasses with no lenses, I don't know what will...

Svengali

[wm3798]

I know that your priority is operating the yard.  That's clear.  But I think you're not anticipating what happens when those trains leave the yard. 

Extending the run, even if there's not a stitch of scenery or a single industry to switch, gives you a flow of traffic that goes somewhere, and takes a reasonable amount of time to get there to allow the yard crew to do its work.

The fact that what I'm proposing can be reasonably simple operationally will help the yard operate more the way you want it to.  If you deliberately create compromises that require operational work-arounds, then that is what your ops will become... work arounds.

The fact that what I'm proposing can add a bit of scenic and operational interest will make it more fun for you to build and operate, whether you're doing it for yourself and by yourself, or with a cast of thousands.

And of course, the fact that I already paid the price to build the yard in the first place makes Ed's budget of time and money a complete non-issue for me!

You might also take into consideration the lengthy discussions about yard ops that led to the design in the first place, and put some faith in what the old man is saying...

[seusscaboose]

@wm3798 is pretty good about suggesting that others remodel their entire house to fit their dream layout under roof, but ask him to remove one closet door . . . 

DFF

HAH!

[seusscaboose]

I'm not trying to run all 20 trains that run each day in an ops session.

It's 21 actually. 

[seusscaboose]

Almost like you're merely hostling the trains in and out of the yard, rather than really having operators set as a full-time mainline engineer job.

DFF

Hostling them to Off Basement / Staging... with one stop (flour mill) on the way.

that's a very good way to describe it.

[John]

You're excuses are tantamount to blaspheme. 

1.  You're still young and dumb.  Y

It's a good thing we all have known each other for at least 10 or more years

[chicken45]

It's a good thing we all have known each other for at least 10 or more years

I haven't but there's just something magical about Lee in this form. I call him Sir Lee (pronounced "surly").

I have to be careful. He still has my L1s and I still owe him a beer! 

[OldEastRR]

Ed:
So you're mainly interested in breaking down and building through freights in the main yard? But you want to have some continuous running now and then?
For just yard work the obvious answer would be two single-ended, long, multitracked yards (staging), one at each end of the yard. Trains then just roll in from staging, get yarded, then roll off to the other staging yard. Between sessions some fiddle-work turns the trains around for the next session. Even this could be a 2 or 3 man operation, what with east and westbound yardmasters and a hostler.
For yard work with continuous running, the loop just circles outside the long staging yards. With pre-made trains sitting in staging, you could switch out trains (and eras) just by parking the running train and bringing out a different one.
Your intent sounds like an old Frank Ellison concept that trains appear on a stage (the layout), play their part, then exit. I think I even saw a track plan once (in MR?) that was built like a stage, with trains coming in and out of staging yards hidden in the wings.
You could even have a staged local that goes around the loop and services an industry here and there, then goes back to staging.

[davefoxx]

[T]here's just something magical about Lee in this form. I call him Sir Lee (pronounced "surly").

BWAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!

[wm3798]

Magical indeed.  We'll get along just fine once you accept the fact that I'm always right.

[wm3798]

I'm just working with the information Ed has given us for the last decade...  Northern Central in winter, long stretches of single track in a leafless forest... Modern (ish) Conrail trains running through a 19th century glen... 

Your "All Yard Switching All The Time" concept is a good one, but it leaves many of your long term itches un-scratched.  I'm just trying to help you see the opportunity that is hanging right there on the shelf above the yard...

Lee

[chicken45]

Magical indeed.  We'll get along just fine once you accept the fact that I'm always right.

I have accepted that fact. As long as it isn't advice on how one mounts one's bicycle to one's Volvo.
 

[Ed Kapuscinski]

Ed:
So you're mainly interested in breaking down and building through freights in the main yard? But you want to have some continuous running now and then?

Kinda. But, given York's position on the line and in the world, it doesn't actually make up entire through trains, only locals. It does make up blocks that through trains pick up, however.

For just yard work the obvious answer would be two single-ended, long, multitracked yards (staging), one at each end of the yard. Trains then just roll in from staging, get yarded, then roll off to the other staging yard. Between sessions some fiddle-work turns the trains around for the next session. Even this could be a 2 or 3 man operation, what with east and westbound yardmasters and a hostler.

I had initially thought of that, but the idea of that much unsceniced real estate in my basement turned me off of the plan.

For yard work with continuous running, the loop just circles outside the long staging yards. With pre-made trains sitting in staging, you could switch out trains (and eras) just by parking the running train and bringing out a different one.

Yep, thought about that too.

Your intent sounds like an old Frank Ellison concept that trains appear on a stage (the layout), play their part, then exit. I think I even saw a track plan once (in MR?) that was built like a stage, with trains coming in and out of staging yards hidden in the wings.
You could even have a staged local that goes around the loop and services an industry here and there, then goes back to staging.

That's almost exactly what I'm envisioning. The only difference is that the cast members who exit stage left have to run back across the stage to the wings stage right. However, there are a bunch of extras milling about on stage, so they just blend in.

[Ed Kapuscinski]

I'm just working with the information Ed has given us for the last decade...  Northern Central in winter, long stretches of single track in a leafless forest... Modern (ish) Conrail trains running through a 19th century glen... 

Your "All Yard Switching All The Time" concept is a good one, but it leaves many of your long term itches un-scratched.  I'm just trying to help you see the opportunity that is hanging right there on the shelf above the yard...

Lee

Oh, I know it leaves other itches unscratched, and I'm ok with that for now. Rome wasn't built in a day... and I'm not thinking of this layout as the "thesis" on the NCR. It's more like a weekly couple page assignment.