Cisco Bridges: a new layout concept

[Scottl]

I could probably do something with that paper mill space.  There is a small yard there but the space is wide open.  If I moved the curving double track in the top left corner down a bit, that would give some space for scenery behind the track, and maybe some aspect of the local scenery.

[Scottl]

How about this?  The new crossing could be a trestle along the lines of the Anderson River crossing not far from Boston Bar and Cisco:

http://www.railpictures.net/viewphoto.php?id=405050&nseq=0



I kind of like this.

[packers#1]

I'm digging it without the paper mill. The other industries provide something visual, even if not there in real life. I like the idea as well to do a river crossing like the one you described. I think it addresses the things you dislike from your current layout, and despite the duckunder, should be a great spot to relax and be surrounded by trains.

[Scottl]

Thanks, I do like this version a lot.  I cleaned it up a bit and removed some of the double track, which is hard to reconcile with a tall bridge in the top left corner.  I guess the yard becomes either Boston Bar or Lytton, but I lean towards the former.



Played a bit with Google Earth and came up with these images of the Cisco scene, oriented as I have it roughly in this layout concept:



And here is the fly through image, approximating what looking down that scene could look like.

[GaryHinshaw]

Excellent!  This will be a much more satisfying plan.  Single-tracking the other bridge (Spuzzum?) is better too.  My only suggestion would be to move the turnout away from the bridge and curve, and have it on the straight lift-out section.  (And if you made the layout higher, you could get away with the lift-out section being semi-permanent.)  Now, back to your original post:

2.  My track work has not been good enough to ensure reliable operation.  There are many operational issues with my current layout that really take the fun out of running it for me.  I've tried to deal with them, but I'm pretty much of the mind it has chronic issues.

How much of that problematic track work will this plan re-use?

-gfh

[Scottl]

Hmm, that is a good idea to make the duck under semi permanent....  I had to look up where Spuzzum was! 

In terms of the track issues, a substantial amount of it was related to the track that was hidden and had limited access.  Derailments and deadspots were driving me crazy.  This plan removes all of it, so that is a plus. However, there are a number of Atlas code 55 turnouts that are particularly bothersome in the yard and I would have to deal with.  I've fiddled with them quite a bit but I get frequent derailments. 

My thinking at this point is to experiment with handlaid turnouts to see if I can do better and replace many, if not all of these trouble makers.  The revised yard does free up about ten turnouts, including two curved ones, so the alternative is to substitute these surplus units for the problem turnouts. 

Of course, if I enjoy handlaying turnouts, I may just do them all over again, but I think I had better try one first before making that kind of commitment.  The Proto87 parts are oh-so-tiny (but very nice)!

[GaryHinshaw]

Well, I can't say that I "enjoy" building turnouts, but I do enjoy the results.  I hope you do too.  Another good candidate for your second bridge is CN's Thompson River crossing at the confluence with the Fraser:

http://www.railpictures.net/viewphoto.php?id=414633&nseq=1

Can I move this thread to the Engineering forum now?   

-gfh

[Scottl]

There are a few crossings.  The one you posted at Savona is closer to Kamloops.  I have a ready made Central Valley bridge that could do for part of that...

Here is the first of two crossings right at Lytton, another interesting bridge.

http://www.railpictures.net/viewphoto.php?id=380862&nseq=22

Here is one I have not seen before...

http://www.railpictures.net/viewphoto.php?id=290669&nseq=60

So many bridges, so little room... 

You are right though, this needs to head over to the Layout Engineering.  I'll have to post a eulogy for the northern Ontario layout.

[GaryHinshaw]

The one you posted at Savona is closer to Kamloops.

Doh!  Right you are - I was *thinking* of the one at Lytton.  That Savona one would be nice nonetheless.

[nscalemike]

I just read this whole post.  I have to say, the first plan just didn't excite me very much.  Many of the reasons were mentioned.  When you posted your new "eureka" moment plan I did get excited.  That is a nifty looking plan for your space and your goals.  My own opinion was to keep the paper plant and ditch the other two industries and I say that simply because the paper plant looked large enough to keep any of your occansional switching itchs satisfied without overcrowding the area with switching.  That being said, for your layout and goals I like the scenery option and get a feeling you will enjoy it more too.  I think I counted 6 car spots still at the other industries, many of them able to hold more than one car, so that will keep a switcher busy for a good hour too. 

As you mentioned, you don't have to be tied to the exsisting trackwork by any means.  You could use it for the time being and start replacing it in sections when you have time.  That way at least you can run trains quickly and test everything out. 

Looking forward to seeing how this develops into real life.

Mike

[Scottl]

Thanks Mike, it feels like a good plan and I'm keen to make a beginning.  I have a trip to Toronto next weekend and hope to get some ME concrete ties flex track and maybe a ME bridge kit to start to work on it in December.  I have a trip out west with a day to check out the prototype so I'm am hoping for some action over the holiday break. 

[Philip H]

Scott, I like the last version much better - makes better use of the natural traffic patterns in the room, and obviates the need for door replacement, etc.  You could even build staging along the "left" wall projecting back tp the "top" wall that was permanent.

I still think having a sliding door on a track inside the room for the entrance would be your best bet spacewise, but I have redesigned many a project to accommodate the CEO's requests before.

[Scottl]

Just a quick update and some material of interest for those following. 

I had a quick trip to BC to see the Cisco bridge location in December, but my camera was buggy and none of my photos were stored    I even had permission from track maintenance to get up close and personal as there was a 6-hour block without trains. 

Anyway, I have started to build the CN high Cisco bridge as a test of my modelling skills and to prove I can make this layout work.  I posted some progress  but will repeat this rather boring shot of the bents and arch beams.   Progress stalled in late December when materials ran out, but my fav hobby shop is delivering the needed parts as I type, so I hope this bridge structure will come together quickly now.



Those are the Mainline Modelling plans I have copied and reduced to 80% scale size.  This will make the arch portion of the bridge almost 25 inches in length.

I have had some trouble finding clear shots of the deck girders and ties.   The plans are silent on the details, but I found this youtube video recently that both provides the details I need and is interesting to see as they rebuild from a tie fire in 2011.  This is at least the third fire I am aware of on this bridge, the previous two associated with derailments.

These workers are a long ways up and the wind is blowing!  Great stuff.

Progress, albeit slow.  I hope to have something more substantial soon.

[NARmike]

Keep us posted step by step Scott... I'm watching with great intrest!

Mike

[Scottl]

I'm posting my bridge construction progress in the Weekend posts, but I'm posting here to show progress.  The bridge is coming along but parts shortages keep holding me back (well, that is my excuse, LOL).  More parts are on their way this week and I hope to finish the basic structure next.  Here are both sections propped up for a photo:



This is my main task right now, with a goal of getting the bridge done by spring.  If it is up to standard, that should give me a reason to begin the rebuilding of the layout in the spring before a busy summer.

I've been scoping other scenes of interest in the area and one that stood out on Google Earth was a locale called Black Canyon, on the Thompson River upstream of Cisco and Lytton, BC.  It is difficult to get to, and I suspect requires permission of land owners, so photos are rare and I have not seen any pictures of it until today, but here is a beauty by Mike Danneman just posted today.  You can see the CN line on the west side of the river go into a tunnel, pop out onto a nice bridge, and parallel the CP line (which is also in a tunnel in this scene).  Great stuff for modelling!  I have the bridge ready-made, so this might be a diorama to build. 

http://www.railpictures.net/viewphoto.php?id=423547

I'm still very happy with the layout design that emerged a few months ago on this thread.  I can't wait to make it a reality.