Pennsy K4s?

[draskouasshat]

hi draskouasshat,

well, I am not sure what you are not hearing....

right now you can buy a minitrix k4 and spend about 50 ish bucks.
and you can find a precision scale k4 of various types for 250 plus bucks.
with one on the bay right now for 799.99?
in theory those are ready to run.

superturbine has a k4 shell for what ever price he feels is good
and one must find a kato c55.
that leaves two or three problems
you will have to find a kw trailing truck and make a pilot truck
and get  a tender behind it.

you are wondering why there is no crowd avidly awaiting an incomplete kit?
or are you wondering why there is no crowd looking to pay about 200 dollars for that incomplete kit?
or are you wondering why there is no crowd willing to put a kato c55 under a minitrix k4 shell?
this last option has the best chance of being complete and you will have a loco
that looks a lot like a minitrix k4 for your efforts.

now I have to admit that I like kits that are complete, or that are easy to complete by buying
an available part or assembly....  I do not see that going on here.

Last and not least is that there are in N-scale relatively few kit builders.
Right now I have a PRR T1 shell, I consider it to be a treasure hunt.
It will be expensive by the time I am done.

the same is true for any of the offerings here.
getting a complete kit for a updated/improved/modernized K4
is going to cost more than Kato's GS-4 or the more recent b-mann offerings.

so high side pricing, extra work to fit it together, and no promise of success....
I am thinking I have no need for crowd controls.

victor

Actually Victor, im not picking the fight with you. Just wondering where all the Pennsy modeler are that are parading around for a K4. I guess i just find it funny really that heres what will be a good running loco with great detail and of all things, a K4.
Im more just stirring the pot as its funny that none of you are all giddy and jumping all over the place. Ive built many a loco from complete scratch myself for what i model and still do so. This really isnt a poke at you, just the overall K4 craze and the lack of interest here be it a kit or not.

But comparing apples to apples, im pretty sure the FEF and Santa fe northerns have far exceeded the K4 in interest and future sales. Thats what i was  getting to. Im glad you explained all the fancy cool stuff about kits and putting things together. Im just pointing out the silence now that the Pennsy fans could have what they wanted. I guess more than anything, its just irritating seeing people want something so bad yet not have the ambition to even try building what they want. Sure everyone wants RTR but its never going to be that easy. lol

[pennsyfan1361]

"But comparing apples to apples, im pretty sure the FEF and Santa fe northerns have far exceeded the K4 in interest and future sales". How can you compare apples to apples when the last Plastic RTR k-4 was made by Minitrix Introduced 1970 discontinued  1999 with 40 year old tooling. Most people want RTR models now of days a lot of people are collectors or just buyers.      Rich

[nscaleSPF2]

Hey, I already built one Minitrix/C55 K4.  It runs well, and looks ok.  But I want something that looks a little closer to the prototype, and don't want to spend the money for a brass K4 that will probably need to be "tuned" to run properly.  Jason, are you listening?

(Sorry, I don't want this to sound so heavy-handed.)

Jim

[draskouasshat]

"But comparing apples to apples, im pretty sure the FEF and Santa fe northerns have far exceeded the K4 in interest and future sales". How can you compare apples to apples when the last Plastic RTR k-4 was made by Minitrix Introduced 1970 discontinued  1999 with 40 year old tooling. Most people want RTR models now of days a lot of people are collectors or just buyers.      Rich

Ahh youre finally getting the picture. When was the last plastic FEF or Santa fe northern? Oh wait, there is no FEF and the Bachmann northern is our only other option with its 40 year old tooling. You guys just dont get it. Im basing true facts on what jason actually sold before of the northerns and FEFs. Thats apples to apples pal.

Oh and wed all love a plastic cheap RTR  great detailed models. I wouldnt think you guys would be so picky!!!!!

[SkipGear]

Actually Victor, im not picking the fight with you. Just wondering where all the Pennsy modeler are that are parading around for a K4. I guess i just find it funny really that heres what will be a good running loco with great detail and of all things, a K4.
Im more just stirring the pot as its funny that none of you are all giddy and jumping all over the place. Ive built many a loco from complete scratch myself for what i model and still do so. This really isnt a poke at you, just the overall K4 craze and the lack of interest here be it a kit or not.

But comparing apples to apples, im pretty sure the FEF and Santa fe northerns have far exceeded the K4 in interest and future sales. Thats what i was  getting to. Im glad you explained all the fancy cool stuff about kits and putting things together. Im just pointing out the silence now that the Pennsy fans could have what they wanted. I guess more than anything, its just irritating seeing people want something so bad yet not have the ambition to even try building what they want. Sure everyone wants RTR but its never going to be that easy. lol

I don't think you are getting it. The people clamoring for a K4, are the ones that want it RTR. They will not take the time to build their own. The K4 shell fills a hole that was not empty. Anybody willing to kitbash a K4 on a better mechanism seems to be perfectly happy with the Trix K4 shell as a starting point and probably have already done it by now. It doesn't require flashing cleanup, delicate care and handling that resin demands, and is considerably cheaper and easy to come by. The Trix K4 works fine for those willing to do the work. Those willing to do the work of a conversion, are also willing to add the details missing. Those not wiling to do the work are not going to buy a more expensive, incomplete alternative to fill the same hole.

 The FEF and Santa Fe Northerns were products that were only duplicated in Brass before this so they filled a void. The build is a relatively easy one using a GS-4 as a chassis source. The K4, as Victor pointed out still needs a tender, pilot and trailing truck and to boot, the motor sticks out of the back of the cab. It is a much more complex "kit" than the FEF or other Northerns.

 I have great respect for Jason's castings. I am amazed how he can cast all the details onto the shell but that for me is a big drawback. It makes the loco much more delicate and much harder to paint than it needs to be. The fist thing I do to a steam loco when working on a kitbash is remove all the detail so I can replace them with either photo etch, resin or brass parts to recreate fine detail. The molded on details appear chunky and for some reason, not natural.

[superturbine]

Just to clear things up.  This k4 casing was largely done for me, when I have it finished I will sell a few of the kits to friends.  Also the minitrix shell is not accurate in many ways.  So I did this casting.  One thing I have come to realize is that N scale has the fewest number of modelers willing to kit bash and scratch build out of all the scales. 
Also Victor is making some wrong assumptions, this kit will include the pilot, trailing truck, tender casting and other parts when finished.  Also as far as a treasure hunt on the T1.... It will not be, many things are in the works as we speak.  I have at least 7 parts needing to be cast for the T1.  An the drive is being worken on also by N stars.

[GaryHinshaw]

Im more just stirring the pot as its funny that none of you are all giddy and jumping all over the place. Ive built many a loco from complete scratch myself for what i model and still do so.

The popularity of a K4 has become something of a troll topic - let's not fall into that trap again. 

It's fantastic that superturbine has the energy and talent to make these shells available to the devotees. How about showing us some more of your scratch-built locos, draskouasshat?  I'd much prefer that to sparring over the K4.

-gfh

[mmagliaro]

I don't think you are getting it. The people clamoring for a K4, are the ones that want it RTR. They will not take the time to build their own. The K4 shell fills a hole that was not empty. Anybody willing to kitbash a K4 on a better mechanism seems to be perfectly happy with the Trix K4 shell as a starting point and probably have already done it by now. It doesn't require flashing cleanup, delicate care and handling that resin demands, and is considerably cheaper and easy to come by. The Trix K4 works fine for those willing to do the work. Those willing to do the work of a conversion, are also willing to add the details missing. Those not wiling to do the work are not going to buy a more expensive, incomplete alternative to fill the same hole.

 The FEF and Santa Fe Northerns were products that were only duplicated in Brass before this so they filled a void. The build is a relatively easy one using a GS-4 as a chassis source. The K4, as Victor pointed out still needs a tender, pilot and trailing truck and to boot, the motor sticks out of the back of the cab. It is a much more complex "kit" than the FEF or other Northerns.

 I have great respect for Jason's castings. I am amazed how he can cast all the details onto the shell but that for me is a big drawback. It makes the loco much more delicate and much harder to paint than it needs to be. The fist thing I do to a steam loco when working on a kitbash is remove all the detail so I can replace them with either photo etch, resin or brass parts to recreate fine detail. The molded on details appear chunky and for some reason, not natural.

+1  Spot on, Tony.

A ton of people want a K4, but they want to buy one outta-da-box.  The forums have been filled with clamoring for
Kato or Bachmann to make a K4.  When Kato did the Broadway passenger set, the forum lit up with,
"What?  No K4 to go with it???"

That's not the same thing at all as building one yourself from bits and pieces.
Everybody knows the formula by now:
C55 + Trix shell + GHQ parts (optionally, depending on how fine you want the details)

Jason has an alternative shell.  That's great.

But neither of these fills the real void, which is for a RTR K4.
Jason is right.  The number of people willing to do this kind of scratchbuilding is small.  The number of people who want
a RTR K4 is the key.

[Dave V]

I still can't help but ask whether there would be more interesting an H-series Pennsy consolidation for the Spectrum 2-8-0.

I'd be all over this K4 if I didn't already have a nice brass one in DCC.  I could use another at some point.  However, my homemade H10sb is not up to visual snuff anymore and a casting of this quality is something I'd pay for.

[SkipGear]

There is somebody over on Trainboard working on a Shapeways, H class boiler for the Bachmann Consolidation but it needs a lot of work still. The initial drawings don't look right.

[pennsyfan1361]

I agree with Dave Vollmer that a PRR H9/H10 or a M1 would be in more demand. Given the time period 1956-1966 and area I model PRR Northern Div. I don't really  need a K-4  if I back date to the early 50s I do. Passenger trains in 1956 had E-7s or E-8s for power. I was not one of those people to say we need a K-4 I will be making my own K-4 just to have if I back-date to early 50s. I could go for a few M1 for the 4-8-2 bachmann and someH10 and some PRR coast to coast tenders.        Rich

[Dave V]

I just checked the Trainboard thread.  I'm definitely excited, but like you I'm not sure he has the contour right.  Sound like he's aware and working it.  The tender is spot-on as near as I can tell.

[draskouasshat]

Ill agree with tony but i do get it. If only our pipe dreams would have RTR K4s, FEFs, ATSF Northerns. I just dont agree with the PRR fans that every friggin time a new steamer comes out, the only thing they do is criticize it and say a K4 would have sold better. If youre that hard up for one, do what the rest of us "modelers" do and build it. You dont see others b!tching about not having a _________(insert western loco here) when something new comes out. I guess i just take what mechs come out and make what i want or at least attempt it. Jason has my 9000 class UP 4-12-2 and my UP E2 bubble nose and im about to send down turbine #50 for casting. I wont go  into the long list of Santa Fe models ive built.

And victor, this is a whole loco with all sorts of parts, not some half arsed boiler. This will get you an as good as brass K4. Ill leave this thread alone now. Sorry for trolling. LOLOLOLOLOLOL

[Ed Kapuscinski]

I still can't help but ask whether there would be more interesting an H-series Pennsy consolidation for the Spectrum 2-8-0.

I'd love one, along with an as-built tender too. I'm really into the idea of trying to figure out how to do some 1910s PRR steam... oil headlamps and all.

[muktown128]

OK.  I'm one of the guys clamoring for a RTR K4.  Jason's casting looks great, but it wasn't something that I was on my list of wants.  I have several Trix K4's that I would use for upgrading / bashing.  Having a K4 casting provides another option for obtaining a boiler with better details. 

I may buy a K4 casting, but since I am starting at the beginning of the learning curve, I'm not sure this would be a good idea for a first project.  However, after seeing pictures of the K4 casting, I did buy a Kato C55 2012 loco with the idea of using this for Jason's K4 casting.

I would rate an H9/H10 or M1 shell higher on my list of wants since there is no readily available option like a Trix K4 and I have 2 each of Bachmann 2-8-0's and heavy 4-8-2's that I acquired with the intent to bash these into these locos.  Having  castings of these boilers would eliminate the need to slice and dice the Trix K4 and B6 shells that I have acquired.

I realize that I will need to make the effort to bash the H9/H10 and M1, since I'm not willing to pay the going prices on ebay unless I win the Powerball jackpot tonight.

There is a lot that I will need to learn and will probably be contacting guys like Dave Vollmer, Lemosteam, Victor and Max among others that have been there and done that to make these PPR steamers.  The models they have created have inspired me to at least try.

Scott