Allegheny Eastern: Clean Slate

[kelticsylk]

"Whoa is Us"

http://kelticsylk.blogspot.com/

[DKS]

Um... did you mean "Woe is us"?   

[kelticsylk]

Um... did you mean "Woe is us"?   

Duh...Sorry about that. Correction has made

[kelticsylk]

"Sketchpad"

http://kelticsylk.blogspot.com/

[kelticsylk]

"Catasauqua"

http://kelticsylk.blogspot.com/

[kelticsylk]

I value the feedback of this group so I'm gonna try to copy my blog entries to this thread. I'm thinking some folk don't see it otherwise. Hope you guys don't mind.

"Catasuaqua"

There is a lot of undeveloped real estate on the left side of the layout. One way I thought to utilize this space was The Eastern Electric. I couldn't figure a reasonable way for the steam road to get across the mainline so I thought the trolley line would be good idea. I even thought I could make it a freight carrier with steeplecab motor units running in the street. I would interchange with the mainline or maybe even cross the mains to interchange with the Average Eastern. Since any bridge would require ridiculous grades and trolley lines use such grades it seemed feasible. The idea didn't seem to work the way I thought it might.

Then I remembered Catasauqua on the Lehigh Valley...

Catasauqua

The Lehigh & New England actually crosses the LV four track main at grade...

Lehigh & New England Crossing

Crossing a busy mainline must have been a nightmare in the real world, but it sure works for the layout. I added a crossing just like it to the track plan. Now the Average Eastern can access the space on the "south" side of the mainline using this very unique feature. I was able to add several industries to this side of the layout...

Average Eastern Jan 26th 2014

Thinking on it, a run around track should be added on the south side of the crossing. This would allow switching the facing point sidings without running back across the mainline. Other than that I'm thinking it makes good use of an otherwise wasted space.

I'm still playing with place names. In keeping with the theme I had originally gone with synonyms for Average. That's where Quotidian comes from. I ran two other names together to get Commonstock. Alpha is named for the cement plant located there. Owertown is just bad spelling for Our Town.

There are a LOT of water courses on the layout requiring lots of bridges. This seems more "real" to me if you know what I mean/ Railroads and highways often follow rivers and streams. Many times a river has any number of feeder streams and places where two streams join to form a river. I also included a lake formed when a dam was built across the river. Here in Tennessee all the rivers were dammed for flood control and power generation during the Roosevelt  era.

This week saw the arrival of the Average Eastern's first locomotive, a Baldwin built 2-8-0. Unlike every other engine on the property, the Consolidation was purchased specifically for the short line. I've been reading that these Bachmann "Connies" are great performers. They certainly look great. I plan to keep this beauty as delivered for the most part. Not keen on wrecking another locomotive. Just some lettering changes, a light weathering and DCC...

Bachmann Spectrum 2-8-0

That's all for now,

Frank Musick

Building a dream layout on a nightmare budget

The Average Eastern Railroad

[MichaelWinicki]

Hi Frank!

On one hand I like all the options.

On the other I wonder if it's way too much... Especially for essentially a lone-wolf operator.  I look at it and I think "Chef Boyardee".  All the scenic vistas will be chock-full of track.

[davefoxx]

I agree with Michael. I have been hesitant to say anything, but since you have stepped back from the grand PRR plan, I'll add that you may wish to consider simplifying the plan.  If it were me, I would reconsider the expense of a large four-track main and the branch crammed in the middle.  I have always thought that your aisles were too tight, and with the latest incarnation removing the model of Horseshoe Curve, I would consider taking that peninsula out.  I would recommend less track, because less is often more.  Less track equals more scenery, which boosts the realism factor.

I know I could never build something the size of your layout, and, recognizing my own limitations, I have kept myself to the much more manageable HCD layouts.  By not overdoing it, the hobby is a lot more fun for me.

DFF

[MichaelWinicki]

If it were me, I would reconsider the expense of a large four-track main and the branch crammed in the middle.  I have always thought that your aisles were too tight, and with the latest incarnation removing the model of Horseshoe Curve, I would consider taking that peninsula out.  I would recommend less track, because less is often more.  Less track equals more scenery, which boosts the realism factor.

Good point about the aisle-width Dave.  Those are narrow.

Frank if you want a interesting little short-line as part of the plan (and certainly there is nothing wrong with that) then why not leave it as an interesting little short-line?

Right now the short-line seems to go everywhere the 4-track main does.  Maybe have one short-line work the Mount Carbon/East End part of the layout, and then maybe another short-line with a segment in the Comstock area... Without actually connecting the two short-lines.  With interchanges off the 4-track and maybe keep the small yard in the Mt Carbon area you would have enough switching to keep you busy while trains circled the 4-track main.

The 4-track main lacks a little realism for me in that it was the first RR through this imaginary part of the world, yet it doesn't seem to service any of the industries on the layout.  I don't think a large RR would willingly "give" industries away to a short-line.

Here's a real life example...

In my area, the PRR was the dominant road establishing operations through here in 1872.  A short-line sprang up and established itself around 1900, and in doing so serviced one part of the city.

In 1907 a new brewery was constructed in the area of the city previously dominated by the short-line.

Well, the PRR decided to build a line that ran about a 1 mile to service this one industry, even though it was only going to generate a few car loads per week and this brewery was only a couple hundred yards from the existing short-line.

Railroads were competitive and wouldn't give up traffic easily.

[kelticsylk]

Based on your comments I played around with the track plan. I deleted most of the four track and widened the aisles around the center peninsula...

There are a few points to consider. First, the layout also serves as a storage unit for my wife. Decreasing the square footage cuts into her storage. Second, I had kept the four track mainline the same 100 foot length because of the time it takes for trains to traverse it. A 30 car coal drag traveling at 10 scale mph takes about 15 minutes to make a complete circuit. The layout operates in real time so basically a train passes through Average every 5 to 15 minutes. The idea is to simulate a VERY busy mainline with only four trains. Keep in mind that the mainline is only there for effect. They never actually interact with the Average Eastern, it's just implied. I threw together a plan showing some of the suggested changes. I haven't added all the sidings back yet...


In most of the track plans I have seen, the Class 1 railroad is implied by a short section of track that doesn't do anything. I wanted to get away from that and actually have running trains. I could, however, just build an L shaped oval. The trains could be stopped "off stage" and still run at timed intervals.

If you look at the previous plan you'll see there is a second interchange at East End with a two track mainline. This makes the AE a bridge line. This interchange is suggested only without trains running on the mainline.

[MichaelWinicki]

Frank, I get that the AE is a "bridge line".  The challenge is that its realism as a bridge line is compromised due to the 4-track main which is omnipresent. 

If it were me and it were possible, I would reduce the 4-track main to a 2-track main and do my best to hide it using mountain (tunnels), ridges and buildings.  Then have the connection at each end with the AE, so that the bridge line persona is maintained.  By hiding a chunk of the 2-track main, you could still do some round-de-round action and give the appearance of two different RR's connecting with the AE.

The two worst things that I've found spoil model RR fun are derailments and skinny aisles.   Narrow aisles don't just make it uncomfortable it can lead to potential damage to the layout with folks having to squeeze by and lose their balance.

But really, this is your pike Frank and your vision... do it so it makes you happy!

[DKS]

If it was me... I'd eliminate the middle peninsula altogether, and beef up the right hand peninsula to allow for much broader, sweeping curves (and to keep the storage area from taking a big hit). IIRC, you have access to all sides, so the right peninsula could be safely enlarged to 4+ feet in width. FWIW.

[kelticsylk]

A few things...First a look at the storage under the layout...


The areas most affected by the aisle change would be Christmas and Holidays. These areas are probably "non negotiable". The storage criteria are based on the size of Rubbermaid Toteboxes. Has to be deep enough to store them with the narrow end facing the aisle. They're about 24" long x 18" wide. A 48" width is required so the totes can fit two across with access from both sides. If I cut back on storage I won't have the capacity for the future. I've given away several power tools and toolboxes and other miscellaneous stuff to make sure I had enough space under the layout. I even fold the mower up and store it under a shelf that holds the power washer.

It might be nice to have wider aisles, but so far it hasn't been an issue. The only people who are really interested in the trains are all under 4' high and require very little aisle width  It's not like an NMRA convention will be passing through. If the grandkids grow too much they can help me build a new layout or a bigger garage.

I really want to keep part of the mainline four tracks. I grew up along the Pennsy's Northeast Corridor. I drew up another version that includes some of your suggestions and meets some of my "expectations" ...


You'll notice I went the opposite direction this time. I kept the "Catausqua" style crossing but moved the yard and engine facilities to the outside. The Average Eastern runs clockwise around the room. It interchanges with an operating four track main at Average and a operating two track main at East End. The rest of the loop is buried under the scenery with access from the aisles. I don't show it but the Quotidian Co. tracks interchange with thhe Average Eastern at Quotidian. The mines are above Mount Carbon.

Haven't shown many sidings yet, just the two interchange yards and passing sidings.

DKS...Don't like that crossed loop. I've seen it on other track plans and it drives me nuts. If you are following a train you have to run around to the other side of the layout and double back on yourself. Then you have to run back around to catch up (hope that made sense).

Anyway...Does the new plan look workable? Any ideas for industries and siding locations? The only one I know I would like to incorporate is this gem in Altoona...


The lumber company is served by two sidings at two levels. Thought that would look pretty neat.

[MichaelWinicki]

I like it Frank.

I like the simplistic approach at incorporating the 4-track main.  It's there but it doesn't dominate the layout.

It allows you to focus more on the AE, which is the more interesting operating option IMO.

[davefoxx]

One idea: Instead of looping the mainline on the AE out on the peninsula in the middle of the plan through Lake Side and Alpha, why not take the opportunity to use the peninsula as an entire industrial complex?  In other words, replace Lake Side and Alpha with one town that provides a lot of switching opportunities.  Any reduction in the length of the mainline (minimal as compared to the whole length of the line) will be more than made up for with the added ops potential.

Second, I'm not a huge fan of so much hidden track.  That usually asks for trouble, even if you have bulletproof track, if such an animal actually exists.  By not being able to see trains, it's easy to forget where they are and collisions occur.

DFF