Allegheny Eastern: Clean Slate

[kelticsylk]

"On a Binge"
http://kelticsylk.blogspot.com

[kelticsylk]

"Try, Try, Try Again"
http://kelticsylk.blogspot.com

[reinhardtjh]

Hi Frank,

  I just wanted to say that I love your blog series.  As a Pennsy fan it's very interesting and I like the humor that you find even those occasional less than perfect outcomes.

John H. Reinhardt

[Lemosteam]

+1.

[kelticsylk]

Thanks for the encouragement guys. I'm working on an entry now wherein I try to build the N5e cabin from scratch.

[kelticsylk]

"Tornadic Activity"

http://kelticsylk.blogspot.com

[LKOrailroad]

WOW, glad to see you lost only a tree. Could have been much worse.

[kelticsylk]

"Abject Failure"

http://kelticsylk.blogspot.com

[mark.hinds]

Any chance the issues with the track in your helix are due to rail expansion from heat? 

MH

[kelticsylk]

Not sure. This is the first time it's happened over the several years the layout has been under construction. The major difference is the track was "permanently" fastened with glue rather than nails.

The parts were in the garage which has minimal heat. The temperatures have been "normal" for this time of year. mostly in the 30's and 40's with an occasional 20 or 60.

The temperature swings over the seasons can go from 20 degrees to 100 and the garage isn't insulated.

[DKS]

Did you glue the track before or after making the joints? If before, and the rail ends were butted very tightly together, heat from soldering would make the rails expand, but they'd have no place to go, other than up. Also, IIRC, Rapido track is steel, not NS, which would behave differently when heated. Either way, try this: solder the joints before securing the track. If this is not practical, then make sure there is a tiny gap between the rail ends, so the rail has someplace to go as it expands.

I'd add one other recommendation: Given the wild swings in temperature and humidity possible in the layout space, leave some of the rail joints unsoldered (say, one set on each level), with small air gaps between the rail ends. This will give the track the ability to respond to the environment. Don't forget, it's not just the track reacting to temperature changes; the wood of the helix is quite unstable, and will expand and contract in response to temperature and especially humidity far more than the track will, particularly if the wood was not "conditioned" to the environment (allowed to sit in the room at least several days before using it).

[Philip H]

And on your kitbashes - those are not failures. You're doing something unique, and that will require some trial and error. Stick to it - there's a bunch of SPFs on here who want to see you succeed.

[mark.hinds]

Did you glue the track before or after making the joints? If before, and the rail ends were butted very tightly together, heat from soldering would make the rails expand, but they'd have no place to go, other than up. Also, IIRC, Rapido track is steel, not NS, which would behave differently when heated. Either way, try this: solder the joints before securing the track. If this is not practical, then make sure there is a tiny gap between the rail ends, so the rail has someplace to go as it expands.

I'd add one other recommendation: Given the wild swings in temperature and humidity possible in the layout space, leave some of the rail joints unsoldered (say, one set on each level), with small air gaps between the rail ends. This will give the track the ability to respond to the environment. Don't forget, it's not just the track reacting to temperature changes; the wood of the helix is quite unstable, and will expand and contract in response to temperature and especially humidity far more than the track will, particularly if the wood was not "conditioned" to the environment (allowed to sit in the room at least several days before using it).

Here's what I do.  The winter before starting tracklaying I heated a section of flex track until it was warm to the touch, measured its length, then put it outside on the window sill for an hour and measured the difference.  This was of course a worst-case scenario.  From this, I developed a standard that each 6' section of flex track needed to be next to a rail gap of 1/64".  When actually laying track I maintain that gap with a temporary 1/64" plastic shim (important). 

On my 2-level helix I plan to have one set of gaps in the center, which translates to a 9' section of track on each side.  Since I normally solder track sections together on curves (per MR's Clinchfield), and since I obviously couldn't do this at that 9' expansion joint, I plan to implement some sort of mechanical support to ensure that the rail maintains its curve inside the helix; details TBD.  If one uses a stiff flex track like Shinohara or ME, one might be able to dispense with this latter precaution, assuming that the rail itself has been pre-formed into the desired curve.  In this latter case I would still use rail joiners, as the track isn't visible.

In all of the above cases, I run track power feeders to each section. 

The result of all this is that in the 30-year lifetime of my (still unfinished) layout, in 3 different residences, and during 2 different moves between residences, I have had no issues with track deformation. 

MH

[kelticsylk]

David,
I glue and tack each section in turn. I would leave the end loose so I could attach the next section. I soldered the joints letting the new section lay straight as a tangent to the curve. I found this worked better than soldering up a few sections at a time. The joints on the "free" rail moved to much and I had the remove more ties. Using the "tangent" method allows me to control where the joint goes (hope that makes sense). After the soldering I laid the new section of track into the groove. I pin it in place with track nails. I then run a thinned mixture of glue with a little detergent down the track. The detergent lets the glue flow freely around the ties and under the rails. I leave the far end free and repeat the process on the next segment. The nails don't get removed until the the glue dries.

The plywood sat for a couple of days, just because I didn't get around to the machining right away. It was too cold outside.

On the Rapido track I found every section had that vertical curve, even the ones I haven't used yet. No wonder they were only a dollar each.  I'll have to flatten each section before I use it. Didn't know they were steel. Thanks for letting me know.

Mark,
Hadn't thought to acclimate the track. Assumed the plastic and metal would be pretty stable. Oh wait, you were performing a test...I'll add expansion gaps as you suggest.

So you are using a feeder every 6'. I was thinking that one per level would work okay. I just checked the math and on the helix that would be one feeder every 12' (sorta). I'll have to add another feeder to each level.

Phillip,
Thanks for the encouragement. Stupid question 1,293,456,234.5...What's an "SPF"?

[mark.hinds]

(Sorry for the constant changes to this post...)

Yes, I use a power feeder every 6'.  Even if I didn't have expansion joints every 6 feet (9' on the helix), the resistive impedance (resulting in voltage drop) of even code 70 NS rail (let alone code 55) is very much greater than that of adequate-sized power bus and feeders (i'm using 20 gauge stranded, but my layout is fairly small). 

Picking up on DKS' comment, I didn't know Rapido track was steel.  I wonder whether the particular alloy they use is more prone to oxidize than the normal NS.  If so, I wonder if you really want to use it in your helix, where maintenance will presumably be more difficult...

MH