Were Penn Central locos really Brunswick Green?

[muktown128]

I picked up the Trains NS Heritage issue and saw it mentioned that the Penn Central loco was painted Brunswick Green (DGLE).  I always thought PC locos were black.  Were they really Brunswick Green?

I looked at a color panel of the paint used on the PC heritage unit and it is in fact a very dark green color.  Unfortunately, the color standard the paint was matched to was returned to NS or Progress Rail, so I cannot comment on the source of the color standard or how close the visual color match was. 

Scott

[DKS]

PC locos evidently were a number of different colors, according to this source (refer to the 8th or 9th item down the list).

[cv_acr]

PC's locomotives were not all just painted black. Some were red (ex-NH), red-orange (ex-NH), orange (ex-NH), red-black-white (ex-NH such as the FL9's not repainted yet), blue w/ yellow lettering (most PC FL9's), black with a green stripe ("Dispatch Shops" SW Loco), DGLE/Brunswick Green (ex-PRR locos and PC re-paints), Tuscan red/brown (ex-PRR units or PC re-paints), gray (ex-NYC), gray with black ends-or nose (some ex-NYC E-units were painted this way), black with white stripe along frame (ex-NYC units or custom "shop paints"), white (at least 1 GP7 or 9 loco used for a kids project), black w/ side stripes (ex-NH GE's and ALCO's), black and red (ex-NH GP9's, RS-11's), and may be other versions not yet discovered.

It kinda sounds like he's describing various un-repainted patch jobs in the first part of the paragraph though. There were definitely patch-outs of old PRR engines that would have been DGLE with PC numbers and logos.

[bbussey]

If freshly painted, they were black.

[kornellred]

The curious issue is why NS painted the Heritage unit DGLE, if in fact they did.  The unit sure looks black to me. 

[ljudice]

Bryan,  the supposedly well researched NS heritage loco is not black - it is DGLE.  There has been extensive discussion of this around various forums and I have never seen a definitive answer.

But....

Unfortunately I lost the link, but there was an internal PC pre-Conrail document that had been scanned in and posted on the web and it shows the "New" Conrail paint scheme - which looks like black.  However it says in the text they will CONTINUE to be painted a very dark green in order to reduce "harsh lighting effects" - I specifically recall that wording.

EDIT:  http://www.multimodalways.org  is where the document is, but the CR and  PC docs are currently offline supposedly during a move of servers.... 

BTW - personal observation - I was a kid during the PC era and saw LOTS of trains - and you could not tell ME those locos were not black. I do not recall a lot of ex DGLE locos in NJ - except the GG1's which were obviously green.  The E8 and 7's on the NY&LB were all Tuscan and most of the freight locos were repainted Alcos.  The big SD's that were ex-PRR did not make it down to the Jersey Shore.

- Lou

[Sokramiketes]

The point of the DGLE color on the PC isn't historical accuracy.  The evil genius is that there is now an updated color code and formulation for DGLE in modern paint.  The PC unit was a good excuse to have someone else's dollars spent to recreate the color. 

I think the paint colors are one of the coolest aspects of the project.  A lot of the formulations went missing or didn't carry over into the new chemicals.  Now they've been brought forward another generation. 

[altohorn25]

I think I recall reading somewhere that the color PC used was "dip black."  I may be wrong of course.....   Please someone correct me if they know different.

Nate

[Bob Bufkin]

In the beginning (sounding biblical here) some of the PC passenger and freight power was still in orginal PRR, NH or NYC colors.  All the repainted locos I ever laid eyes on was black.  Even under a ton of dirt, mud, or rust, it was black.  I gotta admit that even the PRR locos I saw as a kid looked black to me.

[bbussey]

Bryan,  the supposedly well researched NS heritage loco is not black - it is DGLE....

True.  But I was responding in reference to the color of vintage Penn Central units, not the NS heritage version.

[central.vermont]

OK, I'm not really up on PC or Pennsy engines but what does DGLE stand for? Damn Good Looking Engine or something. 

Jon

[rtroop]

OK, I'm not really up on PC or Pennsy engines but what does DGLE stand for? Damn Good Looking Engine or something. 

Jon

Dark Green Locomotive Enamel

[muktown128]

The curious issue is why NS painted the Heritage unit DGLE, if in fact they did.  The unit sure looks black to me.

Based on the photo in Trains magazine where you can see a difference in color between the trucks (black) and body and an actual color chip that I looked at of the paint formulation used for this unit, it is not black.  I work for the company that supplied the paint for all of the Progress Rail units and have access to the color chips and paint formulas used on these units. 

Oh, and I cannot provide the formulas or color chips - sorry.  

[bbussey]

The DGLE model paint currently available is more than sufficient to use to model the Penn Central heritage unit.  What one has to hope is that Kato uses the correct color if they decide to follow FVM's lead and release the remaining heritage units on their EMD SD70ACe model.